Reviews and level concept

helping builders & reviewers hone their skills

Moderators: Raymond, eTux, QRS, EssGee

Locked
User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10033
Joined: 21 May 2003 04:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Jorge22 » 12 Jul 2019 10:46

It was I who brought Dutchy to the thread for different reasons - like him being the first to be called a troll out of the blue - and (having not read the reviews at first and then only the ones to the last game) I thought it was him but I don't think Ryan even mentioned Dutchy. But why isn't the review clear, may I ask? The review says Ian and, from what I've just noticed, Orbit Dream's first name is Ian. So... Ian. The guy who ended his review with a hope. What exactly isn't clear?

And maybe Dutchy's name isn't even Ian and I just can't remember, for some reason I related Dutchy to the name Ian when Marksdad is Ian. Is Dutchy's name Ian? Lol. I don't think it is but my memory isn't how it theoretically used to be. -------------------- Ok, no, Dutchy's Andre! Oh well...

Anyway, little details aside, it is a referrence to Ian (aka Orbit Dream). Is that not clear? What is not clear? Gosh, so much sensitivity.
Image

User avatar
MichaelP
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10591
Joined: 23 Aug 2001 13:52
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by MichaelP » 12 Jul 2019 11:23

The thread is beginning to read a bit like a Monty Python sketch (Dead Parrot anyone? :D )

Jeff is actually passionate about trying to do the right thing (read reviews, try to learn from them and act accordingly ...), but then believes he is not getting the appreciation he would deserve for his efforts. And then reviewers are trying to "reason" with him and explain something that he does not want to be explained, so you will happily go in circles forever...

Hence, I would strongly recommend you end this discussion now and you simply have to agree to disagree and move on with your lives... :)
Image

Marksdad
Mod
Mod
Posts: 4903
Joined: 05 Oct 2001 17:38
Location: UK

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Marksdad » 12 Jul 2019 11:26

Reading your posts, Jorge,is akin to reading a stream-of-consciousness monologue :)

Yup. Ian/Marksdad/OrbitDream are all Me.
I quite enjoyed the original version of Time Foregot,aside from the first two levels (which were a bit rough,imo);but the multi-level (12..?)adventure improved as it went along;and had quite a few good ideas - especially the way the player revisted previous levels,but from a different direction (for example,you can access areas that you previously saw,but couldn't reach).
To put Ryan's remark into context,I ended the review thus:
As I write this review,I notice that he has just uploaded an updated version (re- interpretation?) of this adventure...it will be interesting to see how that compares

Btw,Dutchy's first name is not Ian :-P

*Edit*
Michael posted while I was writing this.
Yes... definitely time to move on :lol:
Last edited by Marksdad on 12 Jul 2019 11:29, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10033
Joined: 21 May 2003 04:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Jorge22 » 12 Jul 2019 11:28

You are right, Michael. In fact, I ended my debate with Jeff (that started with me not even remotely referring to his level and then being called a troll that was blocking his thread and whatnot plus the final straw) the worst way. I'm sure you understand I can't find that's within the boundaries of "normal".

Sorry I explained what you know. It's over. I want it to be. I do want to make it be.
Last edited by Jorge22 on 12 Jul 2019 11:36, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Ryan
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 17581
Joined: 17 Dec 2015 10:26
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Ryan » 12 Jul 2019 11:28

Marksdad wrote:
12 Jul 2019 11:26
Reading your posts, Jorge,is akin to reading a stream-of-consciousness monologue :)

Yup. Ian/Marksdad/OrbitDream are all Me.
I quite enjoyed the original version of Time Foregot,aside from the first two levels (which were a bit rough,imo);but the multi-level (12..?)adventure improved as it went along;and had quite a few good ideas - especially the way the player revisted previous levels,but from a different direction (for example,you can access areas that you previously saw,but couldn't reach).
To put Ryan's remark into context,I ended the review thus:
As I write this review,I notice that he has just uploaded an updated version (re- interpretation?) of this adventure...it will be interesting to see how that compares

Btw,Dutchy's first name is not Ian :-P
Exactly right. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I should have used your nickname anyway and avoided all the confusion.
No one but ourselves can free our minds...
Image

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10033
Joined: 21 May 2003 04:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Jorge22 » 12 Jul 2019 11:30

Marksdad wrote:
12 Jul 2019 11:26
Reading your posts, Jorge,is akin to reading a stream-of-consciousness monologue :)

Yup. Ian/Marksdad/OrbitDream are all Me.
I quite enjoyed the original version of Time Foregot,aside from the first two levels (which were a bit rough,imo);but the multi-level (12..?)adventure improved as it went along;and had quite a few good ideas - especially the way the player revisted previous levels,but from a different direction (for example,you can access areas that you previously saw,but couldn't reach).
To put Ryan's remark into context,I ended the review thus:
As I write this review,I notice that he has just uploaded an updated version (re- interpretation?) of this adventure...it will be interesting to see how that compares

Btw,Dutchy's first name is not Ian :-P
You're trying to make me laugh, Ian! :D

No, it's not. It's Andre. 8)
Image

User avatar
Trikazz
Member
Member
Posts: 646
Joined: 11 Oct 2017 15:48
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Trikazz » 21 Oct 2019 17:07

@MichaelP why not accept my review of last level's I made it? The problem is my english or something? :|
Image

TombTitan
Member
Member
Posts: 810
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 08:11

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by TombTitan » 28 Oct 2019 11:34

In the reviews for "The Myth of Khonsu" one reviewer wrote: "This level has been badly tested because .... and also think to remove the DOZY in the script to avoid cheating ... ".

It doesn't matter if players cheat with DOZY or not. These games are not roulette, poker, blackjack, lotteries, horse racing, etc. where money or prizes are involved. They are merely exercises of fun. In fact nearly EVERY commercial computer or video console game (not just Tomb Raider) has cheat codes, strategy guides, etc. to allow players to have the most enjoyable experience. Customlevels should be just as enjoyable for players. If players want to cheat, so be it---they merely hurt themselves, and NOT the builder of the customlevel.

It is hypocritical at best or sadistic at worst for builders to deprive players the use of DOZY when those same builders use external software to do much of the same exploratory actions as DOZY when they play someone else's level (as the reviewer did).

User avatar
DJ Full
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 6874
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 04:02

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by DJ Full » 29 Oct 2019 19:51

Not to mention dozy is often removed to avoid breaking the level.
So it's not for the purpose of "killing the fun" but for the opposite.
A player cannot know the reason so he/she shouldn't rate it.
woof

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10033
Joined: 21 May 2003 04:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Jorge22 » 29 Oct 2019 22:07

I'm used to not having dozy. I don't even think about it.
Image

User avatar
Drakan
Member
Member
Posts: 537
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 17:56
Location: Le Mans -France-
Contact:

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Drakan » 30 Oct 2019 11:10

TombTitan wrote:
28 Oct 2019 11:34
In the reviews for "The Myth of Khonsu" one reviewer wrote: "This level has been badly tested because .... and also think to remove the DOZY in the script to avoid cheating ... ".

It doesn't matter if players cheat with DOZY or not. These games are not roulette, poker, blackjack, lotteries, horse racing, etc. where money or prizes are involved. They are merely exercises of fun. In fact nearly EVERY commercial computer or video console game (not just Tomb Raider) has cheat codes, strategy guides, etc. to allow players to have the most enjoyable experience. Customlevels should be just as enjoyable for players. If players want to cheat, so be it---they merely hurt themselves, and NOT the builder of the customlevel.

It is hypocritical at best or sadistic at worst for builders to deprive players the use of DOZY when those same builders use external software to do much of the same exploratory actions as DOZY when they play someone else's level (as the reviewer did).
oh but we're talking about me here
I told you why I used fexinspect (read again my post).
Putting dozy actived is a call to cheat. That's why it's better to disable. Why?
From the slightest problem (baddy, jump, lack of flares, etc. ..) the player will be tempted to use it (this is my opinion, certainly not yours, I know). Now if you want to leave DOZY activated, free to you, everyone does not necessarily agree with that.
I did not know it was you who did this level, so I gave this advice to the author who presented these levels in a disordonned order. I thought he did not despise the script, and did not know that we could disable the DOZY in the script. But you, for sure, you knew.
It is certain that if I had tested your level, I would have indicated to you all the problems encountered (especially the darkness, very frustrating). This level would have been much more pleasant to do.
I've been playing for 23 years, I'm not too bad (bad not sure of the translation), but certainly not as good as you, but it does not matter (I will survive)
I ask to Michael to delete this review.
End of the discussion for me
Jorge22 wrote:I'm used to not having dozy. I don't even think about it.
yes Jorge, but I tested many levels and it's almost the first thing I do when I play a level
Last edited by Drakan on 31 Oct 2019 11:12, edited 1 time in total.

TombTitan
Member
Member
Posts: 810
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 08:11

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by TombTitan » 30 Oct 2019 11:40

I am not the builder of the level, and I have never built a TR customlevel.

User avatar
DJ Full
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 6874
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 04:02

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by DJ Full » 30 Oct 2019 23:44

Drakan wrote:
30 Oct 2019 11:10
Putting dozy actived is a call to cheat.
Depends on the player. Some will do it, some will ignore it. Some will try both ways.
woof

User avatar
Talos
Member
Member
Posts: 503
Joined: 22 Aug 2013 09:03
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Talos » 17 Dec 2019 10:49

Hello everyone. I wanted to thank all the reviewers for my last level, Echoes of the Past, but I want to answer Mulf's questions. Sorry for my English.
Although both the wad and the textures of this level have been compiled from various sources—an approach that often results in the wildly incoherent ‘TRSearch grab-bag’ look
TrSearch is the site par excellence for us LD. I'm also tester of the new version, I don't see where the problem is. Many textures have been used in my previous levels The Citadel and The Prophet's Trail.
the level takes place in Kitezh, legendary sunken city of Russian folklore. Otherwise the level doesn’t look particularly wet, and considering it had been submerged for a few centuries, the place holds up remarkably well
The level set in Rise of the TR's Kitezh, it's different. In the game the city is covered with ice, not sunk into Lake Svetlojar. Founded before the year 1000 by the refugees of Constantinople headed by the Prophet. Information from the game's storyline.
we don’t get so see any Orthodox crosses
it's obvious, in Rise they're not there. There are the Prophet's Symbol, looks like a celtic cross but little different, which are not Orthodox. I inserted them as decorations on the floors and walls. I actually inserted some orthodox crosses, but on the domes.
You get emperor Justinian right next to a white-haired FF-type character, who has usurped a fresco of military saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. Lara looks like an FF character too when she has that bow made from antlers on her back
ROTTR's Kitezh was founded by refugees from Constantinople, who imported Byzantine art into the Siberian lands. Information in the game. I entered Justinian because my favorite emperor, and he lived before the founding of the city.
I inserted Talos (the "white-haired warrior") because there are people on the web who like to steal other people's things. So I've put something of my own in "theme." I got that fresco because I liked it, it's a poetic license.
In Rise Lara wears Byzantine and varangian-made armor. They are called Sacra Umbra, Immortal Guardian, Hope Bastion and Ancient Vanguard. You can search for them on Google Images. The bow is inspired by one in the game, the Ancient Horn Bow. In the level I created a different armor.
That’s when you are confronted by three knights who are called ‘The Deathless Ones’ in-game


In Rise they are called so, they are a tagma of imperial army that followed the Prophet exiled by the emperor. In Greek they are called Athanatoi, and they were part of the Byzantine army.
Lara is supposed to serve as his errand boy? Get that cross yourself, you pansy.
I've added the Warrior, but the latter repeats the same things that Sofia, the leader of the Remnants, says to Lara in Rise. The Remnants are afraid of the Deathless Ones, and none of them dare to approach. Only Lara decides to fight them to retrieve the Atlas, the map of ancient Kitezh, and the Prophet's Cross in my level.
All this information is in Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Vladimir Blinov’s Vision of the City of Kitezh; actually a miniature dating from 1991, but rendered in pseudo-late medieval / Renaissance style
I liked this thumbnail, and it appeared on Crystal Dynamics' official Twitter profile. I know very well that it's not in the Byzantine style like Rise, but it's a poetic license.

Thank you for playing, good holidays!

User avatar
Mulf
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1396
Joined: 04 Oct 2001 00:41

Re: Reviews and level concept

Post by Mulf » 17 Dec 2019 15:08

Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
Although both the wad and the textures of this level have been compiled from various sources—an approach that often results in the wildly incoherent ‘TRSearch grab-bag’ look
TrSearch is the site par excellence for us LD. I'm also tester of the new version, I don't see where the problem is.
There is no problem. The sentence of which you quoted the first half contrasts your level with those that sport the TR Search grab back look, and is in fact a compliment, not a criticism. This seems to be a case where something got lost in translation.
There is no need to educate me about the benefits of TRSearch, because believe it or not, I've been using it myself for a couple of years. Such issues as I had with your choice of textures or objects I have explicitly stated in my review.
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
The level set in Rise of the TR's Kitezh, it's different. In the game the city is covered with ice, not sunk into Lake Svetlojar.
Fair enough. But whether submerged in water or frozen in ice, the place does hold up remarkably well. It does explain the static cats though, I guess, sort of.
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
I actually inserted some orthodox crosses, but on the domes.
Again, fair enough. I didn't spot those.
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
I inserted Talos (the "white-haired warrior") because there are people on the web who like to steal other people's things. So I've put something of my own in "theme." I got that fresco because I liked it, it's a poetic license.
The first part of this I don't understand, so I just let it stand as it is. For the rest, you can call it poetic licence, but I think the otherwise historical setting clashes with the FF-style aesthetic, and not in a good way. But each to their own. :)
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
Athanatoi
I'm not objecting to their name as such. The problem is that the name, combined with the apparent lack of effect that explosive arrows have on them, may mislead players to think they can't be killed.
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
Vladimir Blinov’s Vision of the City of Kitezh
I liked this thumbnail, and it appeared on Crystal Dynamics' official Twitter profile. I know very well that it's not in the Byzantine style like Rise, but it's a poetic license.
But why did you use such a blurry version of it, then? And waste four room textures on it?
Talos wrote:
17 Dec 2019 10:49
All this information is in Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Very well. I'd have to take Rise 101 then in order to fully appreciate your level. That's not going to happen, though. Again: each to their own. :)

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests