Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

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BtB2011 theme

Poll ended at 09 May 2010 20:42

A) Sagas of the North
24
22%
B) Lost Tales of Britain
38
35%
C) Steampunk
46
43%
 
Total votes: 108

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by tombraider1703 » 18 Oct 2010 19:14

Gerty wrote:If you have read through the thread you might have spotted this:
Absolutely! The Back to Basics contest is quite ideal for starting to build. Maybe not making your very first rooms or test levels, but the fact that you get a complete wad and texture set and don't have to worry about new stuff like wad editing or texture set creation, it makes it very easy to build your debut level as you can concentrate on gameplay, architecture and the like.... The basic level building elements so to speak ;)

Concerning the TRNG/NGLE issue - TRNG will probably (99%) not be used. The old NGLE (used in BtB Venice) however will be provided (mainly due to HQ textures and the crashing issue). Apart from that I really have to make up my mind yet...
So NO TREP :D
I have no clue why Apofyse got the idea that TREP would be used, probably he didn't read the whole thing as well :-P

Well i think it will be TREP like last year, Old NGLE + TREP ...

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Gerty » 18 Oct 2010 19:55

Don't know what you were building with but at my end there was no TREP involved. :D
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by mugs » 18 Oct 2010 20:14

we were building with trep ? well, that explains everything........... :lol:
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by tombraider1703 » 18 Oct 2010 20:23

I think TREP was used to expand the limits of trle...

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Gerty » 18 Oct 2010 20:58

That might be the case, it still is something completely different if the EXE is expanded or actual working with TREP.

This explaines how rumours come into the world :D
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by GodHorus » 18 Oct 2010 21:42

I hope to finish & release my current level before the beginning of 2011 so I can take place in BtB '11 as well! Steampunk sounds so interesting and I cannot wait! :angel:

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Horus » 18 Oct 2010 22:41

Gerty wrote:That might be the case, it still is something completely different if the EXE is expanded or actual working with TREP.
Yes, it is something very different to just build a level with a trepped engine (like, indeed, BtB Venice) or to actually be able to trep the engine yourself.

To solve the mystery: I will slightly modify the exe with TREP - more static slots, expanded memory, amount of vertices per object (I noticed there are objects that I build that have more than 500 vertices :anxious: ), generally making it capable of dealing with the Steampunk wad.
The builders however will not be able to use TREP themselves. They will get the trepped tomb4.exe to test their levels with. No TREP involved at their end, so to speak :D

But, like last year we will be using an old version of the NGLE (which I will provide along with the Steampunk package) that does not depend on the TRNG. Reasons for this are for instance 1) it is much more stable than the original editor (less crashes, less frustration, more happy building) and 2) it enables 128px textures.

Ah, but since this thread is getting some attention lately I'd like to hear the general opinion on something:

In BtB Asia and BtB Venice I put a standard black skyline horizon into the wad - which received very split reactions: some people thought it was great because it was possible to create any kind of sky (day, dawn, dusk, night, cursed sickly green sky, sky with a sun, sky with thunder and lightning, multiple coloured sky, anything) - and by that also every kind of setting and atmosphere - for their level (which was my intention). You can see the variety of skies produced with such a horizon here.
Other people thought it was dull and preferred some more detailed horizon (like in BtB Peru - as seen here). I however always thought that such a horizon would hugely limit the builders choices in terms of setting and daytime (the only possible location and time for a level with that Peru horizon was a valley at daytime).
Now with BtB Steampunk I was wondering again whether to choose the black skyline or a different kind of horizon. If anyone cares to give me their opinion on this I'd like to hear it :)
(This is however by no means any official voting on this topic, I would just like to hear some opinions...).

The reason I brought this up is because I received quite some negative feedback on the black skyline horizons, despite my intentions to do the builders a favour. The horizon has been - next to my choice of water textures :roll: - the most criticised part of my past BtB package contributions.

[Random babble about water animations in games] Yeah, about the water textures: anyone who seriously wants to complain about unrealistic water textures should think a moment or two about what water looks like. Or rather: what it is that we perceive as the water surface. It is mere reflections of light from the surroundings (as you can see in the most brilliant game Half Life 2 for instance) and there is no chance to properly put that into any kind of texture for the TRLE. Based on the amount of people who stole my custom made animated water textures from Neon God, I presumed they were pretty popular - ergo I put them into the Venice texture set back then :lol: And I will most likely be using them in the Steampunk texture set.[/end of babble]

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Bojrkraider » 18 Oct 2010 22:57

And don't forget to enable widescreen and fix the sixshooter holster bug. :D If you would care to change some health/breath bars, would be also refreshing. About horizons: What if you include two - one black and one in colours and let builders decide which one will they use. :idea: (Asia btb even had two wads)
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Mytly » 18 Oct 2010 23:38

Speaking as an interested player, as well as perhaps a builder for BtB2011 (hopefully! :) ) - I think the standard black skyline is a great idea, as the huge variety of different settings and atmospheres in BtB2006 and 2010 attest. IMO, the different colours of the sky in each level is at least part of the reason why as a player, I never got bored with the BtB2010 levels, even after playing all 23 in a row - I was always happily anticipating what new sky, and therefore what new colour scheme the next level would bring. :D

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by John Locke » 19 Oct 2010 05:17

Horus wrote:
Gerty wrote:That might be the case, it still is something completely different if the EXE is expanded or actual working with TREP.
Yes, it is something very different to just build a level with a trepped engine (like, indeed, BtB Venice) or to actually be able to trep the engine yourself.

To solve the mystery: I will slightly modify the exe with TREP - more static slots, expanded memory, amount of vertices per object (I noticed there are objects that I build that have more than 500 vertices :anxious: ), generally making it capable of dealing with the Steampunk wad.
The builders however will not be able to use TREP themselves. They will get the trepped tomb4.exe to test their levels with. No TREP involved at their end, so to speak :D

But, like last year we will be using an old version of the NGLE (which I will provide along with the Steampunk package) that does not depend on the TRNG. Reasons for this are for instance 1) it is much more stable than the original editor (less crashes, less frustration, more happy building) and 2) it enables 128px textures.
You say that... but I remember having a horrible time with that level editor. :-P My building was interrupted by evil errors and crashing all the time... Perhaps that isn't the editors fault. I'm not going to go into details, especially because back then I knew less about what was and wasn't pushing the limits of the editor in general. (I signed up to BtB2010 but dropped out eventually due to lack of ideas, technical problems and dissatisfaction.)

I'm definitely planning on going for steam punk. By the way, what is BtB all about? :lol2:JK :blank: Not funny, I know. I'm looking forward to this one. :square: :square: :square: :square: :square: (as usual)
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by tombraiderfreak » 19 Oct 2010 08:06

I would prefer the black skyline horizon myself. I think it would be good for builders to be able to customize times of day. Instead of them all having to be the same time of day and get somewhat tedious and a little boring. :blush:

I am hoping I will have time to build for this one... Then I could have something to consider as a debut level, other than my twenty - twenty-five minute demo which didn't go over very well... Plus... I have always loved the Btb, and have wanted to build a level for it before the level editor was... obsolete, which I don't usually like to think of the time that that might happen... :cry:
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by MichaelP » 19 Oct 2010 10:25

Echoing previous comments - I am all for the black horizon like we had in BtB2010 for all the reasons given above :)
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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by TombMaker » 19 Oct 2010 15:18

Black horizon. :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Phil » 19 Oct 2010 16:32

Although there's something to be said for forcing a daytime - and therefore a brighter - setting, I agree with those who prefer the latitude afforded by the black horizon.

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Re: Back to Basics: Steampunk - info thread

Post by Soul » 20 Oct 2010 00:25

I'm for the black horizon too (even if I didn't realise, that you were suppoed to change the colour of the sky when I built my BtB10 level).

Your watertextures where great too btw. :)

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