Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

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manarch2
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 28 Jun 2018 19:44

TombTitan wrote:
28 Jun 2018 17:56
Dark Sheep said "This project it's perfect, in every detail” --- nothing more need be said even though it is one sentence.
I haven't played HS1/2 yet at all, so mind you I can't say anything about that. In the quote above (and the others as well), it's obvious that the only thing you required from that review is that it shares your opinion (or at least what you think the "truth" is), not about how long or good the review actually is. You just "jumped on the train" at this topic for telling the world how "rubbish" this review was, fairly disrespectful if you ask me.
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Ryan » 28 Jun 2018 20:33

I concur with Phil and Chel's words. I generally don't like being harsh in a review for the sake of it. I'll be critical, but not to the point of insulting (I'm not saying anyone round here is either). I'm currently catching up on a few of the older levels (don't worry, I'll eventually get round to playing the latest ones) and it's hard not to feel somewhat jaded with the new TRNG stuff. Therefore, I've been slightly more negative in a couple of reviews for older levels without wanting to (although there are definitely some gems from the early years). My first reviews weren't that lengthy either but I have learnt from that. But hey, this is just my two cents. :D
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Phil » 29 Jun 2018 01:38

TombTitan wrote:
28 Jun 2018 17:56
I am not a reviewer because you have to be approved by Michael Prager. All members can NOT make reviews.
That's a singularly lame excuse. On the main review page is this text: "...not a Reviewer yet? click to email the admin!"

Have you done that?

If so, and if you were rejected, Michael must have had a mighty good reason. But since he's not in the habit of rejecting potential reviewers, I doubt that's the case.

In either event, I strongly encourage you to become a reviewer now. Instead of reinforcing a reputation as a malcontent and non-participating critic, your articulate voice would go a long way toward bolstering the already strong credentials of the existing review system.

All of this assumes, of course, that you really want to become a part of the review team.

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Ceamonks890 » 29 Jun 2018 03:19

So perhaps my announcement of leaving the site as a critic was a bit premature in retrospect, but you lot have to understand that what I said in my previous posts within this thread, was spoken from the heart. And in essence, what I previously stated still very much holds true, in spite of what I'm about to say.

But having gotten that out of the way, I've given myself a good period of time to think it over & I'm willing to make a compromise of my own for future reviews, by simply not focusing on the scores whatsoever until my core critique is written down, therefore properly allowing me to finalize the personal score in post without much stress(because I still very much want to do something I enjoy and its a better than nothing way around this flawed system, if previous suggestions made are as cumbersome to implement as you guys claim).

Make no mistake though. My general perception towards some of you from posts made far earlier in the thread has been greatly impacted. And as such, I've lost a fair amount of respect for said individuals. But I'm willing to put my personal bias aside within reviews, for the sake of having fun.

So in the end, consider me back and primed for action I guess.

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Jorge22 » 29 Jun 2018 08:45

Excellent. :)

You speak of the end and I say all you need is love. ;)

It's not the end though. And thanks to you we had a pretty interesting web discussion. 8)
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by MichaelP » 29 Jun 2018 11:33

Very happy to see you reconsidering, Jake - and hope I have not been dropping all too deeply on your "respect" measure after all.
I am actually still trying to think through a way of implementing a choice for reviewers not to score if they only want to comment - like the levelbase has - but it is technically not quite as simple as it seems due to the integrated nature of how the database is set up...

@TombTitan - I can only agree with manarch who really called you out nicely on this one. By your comments it has become very obvious that for you a good review is one that shares your perception of the "truth" and a bad review is one that does not. It is this very attitude that usually leads to those (typically unnecessary) public review debates among players, when instead the discussion should take place between the builder and reviewer in question - as has happened many times - and usually quietly and constructively - "behind the scenes"...
And in terms of you becoming a reviewer, I certainly do not recall 'rejecting' your request, as the request step is a mere formality to secure a valid email address and home country from the reviewers. So, I guess you may be taking offense more with the fact that I take control over allowing or not allowing your individual reviews in. Well, suit yourself. As you have probably seen, my approval is generally an easy thing to "achieve" and the step is more needed to filter out the regular SPAM postings. So, having said all that, I can only agree with others that it would be very interesting to get your reviews submitted, but that obviously remains your choice entirely...
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by DJ Full » 29 Jun 2018 12:30

Dick wrote:
20 Jun 2018 15:20
re: the 'likes' system: Enthusiastic fans sometimes cause big jumps by pressing the button over and over
Just to explain, I didn't mean the existing like system. The thing I meant would be limited to 1 click just like reviews are.
But yeah I rethought everything, I think a single slider of 0-10 range would be better.
MAKE WIDESHOT GREAT AGAIN

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by rufierto » 29 Jun 2018 14:08

Ceamonks890 wrote:
29 Jun 2018 03:19
So perhaps my announcement of leaving the site as a critic was a bit premature in retrospect, but you lot have to understand that what I said in my previous posts within this thread, was spoken from the heart. And in essence, what I previously stated still very much holds true, in spite of what I'm about to say.

But having gotten that out of the way, I've given myself a good period of time to think it over & I'm willing to make a compromise of my own for future reviews, by simply not focusing on the scores whatsoever until my core critique is written down, therefore properly allowing me to finalize the personal score in post without much stress(because I still very much want to do something I enjoy and its a better than nothing way around this flawed system, if previous suggestions made are as cumbersome to implement as you guys claim).

Make no mistake though. My general perception towards some of you from posts made far earlier in the thread has been greatly impacted. And as such, I've lost a fair amount of respect for said individuals. But I'm willing to put my personal bias aside within reviews, for the sake of having fun.

So in the end, consider me back and primed for action I guess.


Good, glad to hear it, because getting ready to release the game with your voice over work... :D
Rescue Dutchy!!!!

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by psiko » 30 Jun 2018 10:30

manarch2 wrote:
28 Jun 2018 15:55
a) It's not only what you say, but how you say it. You should care of your words.
b) Isn't it interesting that there are 3 even shorter reviews for this level? I'm missing your complaint about those.
b) he actually did it:
http://forum.trle.net/viewtopic.php?p=760961#p760961
TombTitan wrote:
05 May 2018 09:48
The review by Miya for HyperSquare on May 3 seems to be merely an opinion rather than an assessment based on playing the entire game. I doubt very much Miya could have completed every level of HyperSquare 1 and 2 since April 21 when the game was released. Expert players such as Vimmers, Nad and Eddy only completed Season 2 within the last five days and they did not replay Season 1. Season 1 would take nearly as much time to play as Season 2 in order to properly evaluate the improvements since the original release in 2014.

Season 2 is definitely harder than the original Season 1, and the original Season 1 was never as hard as some players complained about. Depending on the computer the player is using, the linked HyperSquare 1 and 2 game could take a significant amount of time to play due to the serious problems of the current TRNG game engine by Paolone which was used by Psiko.
Anyhow, telling players of my game are masochistic is not a polite argument, right? or finishing with "life is not a valley of tears", what is it? A lesson of life for me? Was he telling me to be more positive to life? :D Did my game make his life worse? or anyone else's life? Then what's an imperfect work of art? lol :) lol, thanks for considering HS as "art", but what does that sentence mean? Furthermore I consider imperfections much more precious than perfection, lol :D

Then, about your a) statement ("You should care of your words"), shouldn't this apply to reviewers as well? And he has thousands of reviews too... so less justifiable.
Short reviews for my games, then, are short because not all people in the world talk English, and they wanted to avoid spoilers to HS plot :)

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 30 Jun 2018 10:50

psiko wrote:
30 Jun 2018 10:30
b) he actually did it:
http://forum.trle.net/viewtopic.php?p=760961#p760961
Had nothing to do with shortness. And if it was meant to, he actually contradicted himself with the later post.
psiko wrote:
30 Jun 2018 10:30
Anyhow, telling players of my game are masochistic is not a polite argument, right? or finishing with "life is not a valley of tears", what is it? A lesson of life for me? Was he telling me to be more positive to life? :D Did my game make his life worse? or anyone else's life? Then what's an imperfect work of art? lol :) lol, thanks for considering HS as "art", but what does that sentence mean? Furthermore I consider imperfections much more precious than perfection, lol :D

Then, about your a) statement ("You should care of your words"), shouldn't this apply to reviewers as well? And he has thousands of reviews too... so less justifiable.
Short reviews for my games, then, are short because not all people in the world talk English, and they wanted to avoid spoilers to HS plot :)
I guess there is a difference between shameless insulting and critizising (justified or not, idk), isn't it? Such word-by-word analysis is very pointless in this forum. Just get over it or contact the reviewer to discuss that privately.

(Actually, no-one actually said anything against those other short reviews...)
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by psiko » 30 Jun 2018 11:15

>>Had nothing to do with shortness.

I hope you are kidding :hammer:

>>I guess there is a difference between shameless insulting and critizising

so it's my fault, because I see no criticism in that review... nothing related to the level itself, but to players.

>>Such word-by-word analysis is very pointless in this forum. Just get over it or contact the reviewer to discuss that privately.

So you probably need to re-read that review and my words. I have nothing against that review, did I say anything to complain? I just pointed out that "criticism" to other reviews were done, by the same person you asked for them to, so he and my statement are intellectually honest. You may not like it, but those are facts.

About that review, and my "getting over it", as if I am taking this for too long, when it was my first post about it, there's nothing wrong with that rating for me: Requiem Soul just used not polite arguments, but he is simply free to say anything. He actually gave a higher rating than my previous release, so in the end, for him there's an improvement on my side. But the truth is the truth, there's a lot to be considered as insults in the words used, to my players too :) And this, from an experienced reviewer should not be accepted.
But I am already "over it" since years ;)

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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Jorge22 » 30 Jun 2018 11:22

I concur. The review in question was *also* criticized for being short. So, the point was made that there were other reviews that were just as short or even shorter. I, personally, added that a certain kind of reviews adds nothing that can be of use to anyone except for the reviewer's count. And I'm not going to quote any as that would only add some more confusion to the whole thing (everybody knows and, in case they don't, it's pretty easy to check it within a few moments).

I agree that your levels are a work of art (whatever that may be but let's not make everything vague). I don't think they're player-friendly. That's all really and only my opinion not even being a newbie.

Still, we were discussing reviews. Not the level itself even though it obviously comes as an attachment.
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 30 Jun 2018 11:39

I am not kidding. In that post, he basically blamed Miya on releasing a review without having finished the level. And even if there was a hidden critisism of the shortness, this post is saying the direct opposite:
TombTitan wrote:
28 Jun 2018 17:56
Miya’s short review is also succinct to the point and does not need embellishment or laborious detail.
...
psiko wrote:
30 Jun 2018 11:15
did I say anything to complain
Yes you did. Just an example, look at the bold words in the following posts.
psiko wrote:
30 Jun 2018 10:30
Anyhow, telling players of my game are masochistic is not a polite argument, right? or finishing with "life is not a valley of tears", what is it? A lesson of life for me? Was he telling me to be more positive to life? :D Did my game make his life worse? or anyone else's life? Then what's an imperfect work of art? lol :) lol, thanks for considering HS as "art", but what does that sentence mean? Furthermore I consider imperfections much more precious than perfection, lol :D

Then, about your a) statement ("You should care of your words"), shouldn't this apply to reviewers as well? And he has thousands of reviews too... so less justifiable.
Short reviews for my games, then, are short because not all people in the world talk English, and they wanted to avoid spoilers to HS plot :)
psiko wrote:
30 Jun 2018 11:15
About that review, and my "getting over it", as if I am taking this for too long, when it was my first post about it, there's nothing wrong with that rating for me: Requiem Soul just used not polite arguments, but he is simply free to say anything. He actually gave a higher rating than my previous release, so in the end, for him there's an improvement on my side. But the truth is the truth, there's a lot to be considered as insults in the words used, to my players too :) And this, from an experienced reviewer should not be accepted.
But I am already "over it" since years ;)
If you were "over it", why do you still critisize almost everything about that - and even react at all? Honestly, I'm sure you are not. Or you just want to defend TombTitan who should be able to speak for himself?
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by MichaelP » 30 Jun 2018 17:09

Moritz, not sure you realize that now it is YOU who is getting into this discussion too deeply and completely from the wrong end. Antonio indeed has had years of struggles with reviews in the early days and we had "interesting" discussions at the time, but when he says he is "over it" that is definitely a true statement from his perspective, so you are completely pushing the wrong "buttons" now. Calm down... :D - we are really done with the discussion on this particular review here I would think...
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Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 30 Jun 2018 17:50

I've gone a bit too far, yes, sorry. To me, the whole discussion (not about the scoring system, mind you) is quite pointless, I just didn''t see why Antonio picked up on it at all and was provoked over some things I found "untrue". Most likely I overinterpreted some of his words, though.
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