Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

helping builders & reviewers hone their skills

Moderators: QRS, Raymond, eTux, EssGee

Post Reply
User avatar
MichaelP
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 10381
Joined: 23 Aug 2001 12:52
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by MichaelP » 23 Jun 2018 17:42

About the difficulty tag...

The challenge with that one is a little bit that what is "difficult" for one player is "easy" for another player, so the classification will always be at least to some point subjective.
Nevertheless, every builder or player is more than welcome to let me know about a proposed difficulty for any given Level and I will update the database accordingly.
Image

User avatar
Mytly
Keen Eye of the Week
Keen Eye of the Week
Posts: 41715
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 22:48
Location: India

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Mytly » 23 Jun 2018 18:40

True, it can be pretty subjective, but if builders provide the rating themselves, then it provides a glimpse into what they intended the level to be like.

User avatar
JoeTheCrazyGamer
Member
Member
Posts: 125
Joined: 07 May 2015 21:01
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by JoeTheCrazyGamer » 23 Jun 2018 19:49

MichaelP wrote:
23 Jun 2018 17:42
About the difficulty tag...

The challenge with that one is a little bit that what is "difficult" for one player is "easy" for another player, so the classification will always be at least to some point subjective.
Nevertheless, every builder or player is more than welcome to let me know about a proposed difficulty for any given Level and I will update the database accordingly.
Same can be said for all the review categorys too, its just opinion. :)
"I understand that somehow is in my favour, so indulge me about the dagger. I'd be indebted with your life."

Image

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 9432
Joined: 21 May 2003 03:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Jorge22 » 24 Jun 2018 14:38

And a wise one too. Of course there's some subjectivity level to every aspect of every review. The real option that would actually make a difference would be not to have reviews at all and that would be a really bad idea.
Image

User avatar
Chel
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: 01 Apr 2016 11:30
Location: Eastern U.S.

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Chel » 28 Jun 2018 00:44

Abolished? No, for the reasons already given. I'm going to admit that I sift and filter what I play based on the numbers. If something is sub 1, for example, I'm not going to bother. I have limited time to spend on gaming (how I miss being a teenager...) and I honestly don't want to spend time on something that isn't going to entertain and challenge me. The numbers/scoring system helps me to make good choices, especially with the older levels from the LE's heyday. I'm a relative latecomer to the party and have a lot of catching up to do!
I do, however, think that reviews should expand on the rating given, and I try to do that with my own reviews. If I think something was awesome I give examples, and if something was mediocre or awful I do likewise. I review a lot of books and this is the same approach I take with that medium of entertainment. I have the same 'philosophy' with these levels as I do with beta reading for various authors: be honest and offer constructive criticism if criticism is warranted. I want to help authors/builders improve, and at the same time I want to also leave a peer review for other players. We could possibly switch over to the 5 star system but it all boils down to the same thing. I think that leaving reviews of only a few sentences is pointless and ultimately more detrimental to the system than the average numbers. Use your words!
The the OP I find it interesting that you mention the prospect of leaving a review diminishes your enjoyment of playing the level. Maybe play, let impressions and thoughts percolate for a few days and then compose and post a review? It shouldn't be stressful, think of it as being helpful?
Just my own two cents. :)

Phil
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5163
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 22:57
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Phil » 28 Jun 2018 15:01

Chel wrote:
28 Jun 2018 00:44
I think that leaving reviews of only a few sentences is pointless and ultimately more detrimental to the system than the average numbers. Use your words!
Thanks for your thoughtful and lucid feedback. I couldn't agree with you more in all respects, especially with the section quoted above. "Great level, a must play" conveys enthusiasm and I suppose is at least a little bit helpful, but it gives no substantive guidance whatsoever to the potential player.

TombTitan
Member
Member
Posts: 508
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 07:11

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by TombTitan » 28 Jun 2018 15:18

Likewise, the very short negative review by Requiemsoul for Hypersquare 1/2 is a misleading and useless piece of rubbish.

User avatar
manarch2
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 9063
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 16:29
Location: Germany

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 28 Jun 2018 15:26

Did you really need that now? I mean this is saying a lot, but only about you.
Image

TombTitan
Member
Member
Posts: 508
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 07:11

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by TombTitan » 28 Jun 2018 15:38

You're out of place. The reviews should say something appropriate or they are useless. That is what is wrong with the system.

User avatar
manarch2
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 9063
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 16:29
Location: Germany

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by manarch2 » 28 Jun 2018 15:55

a) It's not only what you say, but how you say it. You should care of your words.
b) Isn't it interesting that there are 3 even shorter reviews for this level? I'm missing your complaint about those.
Image

Phil
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5163
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 22:57
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Phil » 28 Jun 2018 16:55

And while we're on the subject, where are your reviews, TombTitan, so that the rest of us can be enlightened as to how it should really be done?

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 9432
Joined: 21 May 2003 03:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Jorge22 » 28 Jun 2018 16:56

Yes, yes, yes.

I hadn't read Requiemsoul's review and now I did. Quite honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it (when you compare to how an interesting number of us write their reviews) and it makes me think you may be the one that's out of order because there are in fact a few other reviews that are just as short and one that's a couple of very small sentences long. Only, they praise the level highly while the said review, which is by no means *negative*, doesn't - not exactly, not really. I know, I know, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

This has been a great thread, so let's keep it that way. I for one am out of this. I didn't play this Hypersquare but I did play the first one - I'm not looking but I may have given it four tens. Still, I think I can totally understand and sympathise with Requiemsoul's review and to bring it here may have been a little less than wise. What he said, to me, makes perfect sense. Reviews like "Excellent level. The best of all times" (for instance) mean nothing. It is in those that the system is flawed but I still accept them in the spirit of trle fun (there are plenty of utterly technical reviews to counterbalance).
Image

TombTitan
Member
Member
Posts: 508
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 07:11

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by TombTitan » 28 Jun 2018 17:56

I am not a reviewer because you have to be approved by Michael Prager. All members can NOT make reviews.

In response to Manarch:

Dark Sheep said "This project it's perfect, in every detail” --- nothing more need be said even though it is one sentence.

Miya’s short review is also succinct to the point and does not need embellishment or laborious detail.

JoeTheCrazyGamer could have added more details on gameplay, but they are not really needed since he implies the game stands out above the rest of the TRLE games. In concise phrases which need no embellishment he describes atmosphere, texture and secrets.

Drakan doesn’t need to add to his review to clarify the points made.

However, Requiemsoul says it is “a videogame for a niche, an elite of hardcore players with more desires of suffering than of enjoying. Life is not a valley of tears." This is absolute rubbish (compared to many of the highly praised TRLE games). There is no basis for his review statement because it attacks anyone who plays the game. Obviously Requiemsoul has biases against the game, but none of that should be in a review. The review does also not provide evidence of why Requiemsoul’s opinion should be considered valid. In addition, he says it is “an imperfect work of art. Beautiful, vast, original, avant- garde, laborious, intricate, unhealthy, sadistic.” He should explain why the game is "unhealthy, sadistic". Otherwise his review is extremely misleading.

User avatar
Treeble
Chatterbox
Chatterbox
Posts: 3044
Joined: 08 Sep 2001 04:36
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Treeble » 28 Jun 2018 18:06

Well, it is just one opinion, which is why we go back to Chel's point about people needing to use their words. Nobody is going to give HyperSquare a miss due to that single review, but if the sentiment gets echoed in (several) other reviews it might have an impact. Honestly, it's a bit of a complicated situation because I believe some people are put off instantly by the mere size of the download, then there's the atmosphere/setting which might not please everyone, and then there's also all the new extra moves (rockets etc)... There are a lot of external factors in play in this particular case.

Each player has their own writing "style" and even I sometimes struggle to find enough feelings to convey in a review. I sometimes take notes but most of the time I'm just looking for a fun time. I am fairly sure my reviews alone don't make or break any level, so it's a bit out there to think anyone else's might have that effect.

All that being said, I think you'd make a great reviewer, TombTitan, based on your feedback from the few stuck threads I've perused over the years. Maybe you could ask Michael to be included in the reviewer database? :)

User avatar
Jorge22
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 9432
Joined: 21 May 2003 03:26
Location: Portugal (Porto area)

Re: Should the scoring system of level reviews be abolished on here?

Post by Jorge22 » 28 Jun 2018 18:25

I assume you tried to become a reviewer and Michael didn't approve. I find it weird when I think of all the (almost) meaningless reviews one gets, coupled with a few really mean (or simply incredibly picky and uninteresting for most players) ones.

I am actually not implying anything. Just curious. If you don't want to share I understand.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests