Messing up reviews

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OverRaider
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Messing up reviews

Post by OverRaider » 01 Jul 2015 00:33

At first I want to say that I don`t want to offend anyone, but my soul is telling to my brain to express my feelings about some inconveniences which are occuring here and there in reviews:

1. Friendship - it is well-known that friends are mostly praising each other with high marks in their reviews while other reviewers not really. Well if you allow me to say something about it I have a few words for that. So yes friendship is of course a very important and magical thing which is nowadays let`s say rather rare, but is it really a good friendship when one is not really telling the truth? Or is it just a coincidence that exactly that person loves and thinks that his friend`s level belongs to one of the best levels of the trle world? I am sorry but I have little doubts about that. Again this is not an offence to anyone, but please make a little step into your conscience and ask yourself: is this really so, how much I respect Tomb Raider?

2. Inappropriate scores - this is another well-known inconvenience that occurs quite often, yes everyone is different and anyone can enjoy any level, but that doesn`t mean that if player enjoys the level that it must be praised with full marks or so. For now I take here in consideration the latest review where one reviewer scored 10 in textures&lighting aspect 10 while all other reviewers 1 or 2. Judging just by pictures of that level I even with my closed eyes may say that it doesn`t deserve 10. Same pays for the low marks when somebody takes down 5-6 points for one dislike in gameplay terms while it should have been ok to take down 1 point. So once again please step into your conscience and ask yourself: is this really so, how much I respect Tomb Raider?

3. Knowledge - I think that a reviewer should have some knowledge what TR is about. I am sorry if I am wrong but reading some of the reviews I have a feeling that the reviewer just discovered game and played it for the first time in his life. I am not against that, that raiders are not allowed to say their feelings, but I think that some reviews shoudn`t be accepted at least when the scores are definitely inappropriate for the level.

And again no offend to anyone, but, dear reviewers, please respect Tomb Raider, if you really love it!
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Alex Chap » 02 Jul 2015 12:28

Again, another good topic with a convincing post that will be unremarked. :sad2:

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Gerty » 02 Jul 2015 12:50

No, not again but through the years this subject has been discussed so many times, so I bow out.

But I see no input from you Alex? What are your thoughts?
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Alex Chap
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Alex Chap » 02 Jul 2015 13:30

Probably.

I'm agree with OverRaider. For me, note a level should be objective and not based on the fact that someone like this or that author. What gives me the rage, these are the people who will down points in their notes in a level to have the "correct" average, often in response to some 10.
For the third criterion set by OverRaider, I have no real thoughts. Having never seen this particular case, but we are not here to point someone directly.

In short, I agree that the reviews must be free of expression, but don't complain if you are considered as ridiculous or disrespectful.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by manarch2 » 02 Jul 2015 13:53

It's quite poor what happens lately. Especially presumptuous is that the "Angelica" account which was deleted here because it's obviously a fake one has been "revived" on the levelbase and builders review games where they contributed a level to it. I wonder if they want to receive a fair opinion about their levels that helps them to improve the next time (obviously, there are things that some reviewers did not like so it's very much deserved to mention them) - or - much more - just want to get high marks brazenly no matter if they deserve them or not.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Gerty » 02 Jul 2015 14:07

A review is always subjective. Don't get me wrong, you can (while writing it) to try to be objective as you can, and that is good.
But you cannot completely be objective.

Also reviews do say something about the reviewer and thus his view about the builder and the level.
There are reviews I do read and there are reviews that I certainly do not read anymore, no matter what points the level has.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Alex Chap » 02 Jul 2015 14:12

I didn't express myself correctly.

Of course you can't be totally objective, but a minimum. Everybody write his ideas in a review, and this is exactly what makes the reviewer.
But, I'm sorry, if you are totally subjective and you don't like a particular builder and begin to put 0 everywhere, there is a problem.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by manarch2 » 02 Jul 2015 14:16

(This is written before I saw Alex's post)

The problems I and probably OverRaider too mean have nothing to do with subjectivity, neither fake members and dubious score-pushing reviews nor the very unaptly scored games. Ask yourself, what would you think if someone reviewed, say, Mists of Avalon, with 4-3-0-6? Would you call this a subjective opinion and accept it? I'd guess no.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by DJ Full » 02 Jul 2015 14:20

The "Friendship" factor matters but also in more important aspect. Many times I played a level because I knew the builder and wanted to know him/her more. If I didn't want to celebrate masha's birthday, possibly my review on her level wouldn't even exist. And there are people I don't know at all, who are less likely to wait for me to play their stuff, so I do it in the second order. And when I do it already, I never write a review to harm somebody.

You can be happy about one thing: each reviewer evolves. Each game has equal chance to be reviewed by a beginner and by a veteran. After 2 or 3 months of reviewing, the score is about fair for each game designed. There is only one way to improve it: build a better game :)

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Phil » 03 Jul 2015 00:33

A good and lively discussion, one that needs to take place here periodically. The review system is a valuable tool for players. I rely heavily upon the reviews in deciding which levels to play. Those levels are almost always the more highly-rated ones. I usually agree with the earlier reviewers, so my scores tend to fall in line with theirs. Since there are plenty of worthy levels being produced these days, my practice means as a practical matter that I'll never get around to playing any of those 2-2-1-3 levels that Jake is so fond of reviewing. No matter, we have so many talented builders out there that I'll probably never run out of noteworthy levels to play.

As for the friendship factor, that almost never comes into play for me. The only level I can think of where this could possibly apply is Harry Laudie's first and only release. I had built up a rapport with him over the years because of his prolific walkthrough output, so my scores for his level were consciously a bit higher than they should have been. Rating a level up may be just as misleading to a potential player as rating it down, but I would rather err on the side of giving the fledgling builder a little encouragement.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by bene » 03 Jul 2015 13:48

PDLambeth wrote:A good and lively discussion, one that needs to take place here periodically. The review system is a valuable tool for players. I often rely upon the reviews in deciding which levels to play. Those levels are almost always the more highly-rated ones. I usually agree with the earlier reviewers, so my scores tend to fall in line with theirs. Since there are plenty of worthy levels being produced these days, my practice means as a practical matter that I'll never get around to playing any of those 2-2-1-3 levels that Jake is so fond of reviewing. No matter, we have so many talented builders out there that I'll probably never run out of noteworthy levels to play.

As for the friendship factor, that almost never comes into play for me. The only level I can think of where this could possibly apply is Harry Laudie's first and only release. I had built up a rapport with him over the years because of his prolific walkthrough output, so my scores for his level were consciously a bit higher than they should have been. Rating a level up may be just as misleading to a potential player as rating it down, but I would rather err on the side of giving the fledgling builder a little encouragement.
Well said Phil - that comes close to my reasoning in writing reviews.
Having been away for a long time, many of the builders are unknown to me and I now will read previous reviews to see which level to download. I tend to play only the higher scored games and those builders who tend to become more proficient with each release. I don't play only to review although I do appreciate those who do!

As to any unfair reviews, I rely on Michael's ability to see any that are "off" in some way.
I know he will try to get in touch with any reviewer he thinks has "abused" the system and if something manages to slip by him and if alerted to it, he is quick to do what he can. He does deliberate on these matters and ends up doing what he thinks is fair.

But I do "get" what others have posted....we all need to have respect and as clean a conscience as can be when reviewing....even when it's difficult for whatever reason.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by DJ Full » 03 Jul 2015 13:52

Still, Michael is just one and busy guy, and he gets 200 reviews a month. You can't expect he will moderate every single controversy. No human being is capable of doing that.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by bene » 03 Jul 2015 13:57

DJ Full wrote:Still, Michael is just one and busy guy, and he gets 200 reviews a month. You can't expect he will moderate every single controversy. No human being is capable of doing that.

Michael just MAY be.....:) :) :)
I think it has been discussed previously that he does have help (or did)....not sure of that

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by manarch2 » 03 Jul 2015 14:33

DJ Full wrote:The "Friendship" factor matters but also in more important aspect. Many times I played a level because I knew the builder and wanted to know him/her more. If I didn't want to celebrate masha's birthday, possibly my review on her level wouldn't even exist. And there are people I don't know at all, who are less likely to wait for me to play their stuff, so I do it in the second order. And when I do it already, I never write a review to harm somebody.
Yes, but there's a major difference. Your review for masha's level is rather objective, as much as you can speak of objectivity. But IMO it's not friendship when one is dishonest to each other, which is the case in buttering up each other for show.

And, let's name the reviewer since it's pretty obvious, Nuri's scores are just nonsensical. His ones for Machu Picchu, taken alone, are decently chosen (if you ask me), but rating levels that have virtually no gameplay at all (Venice, for example) much higher just shows that he does not take the scoring serious at all or better said - does not think much about them while choosing.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Jay » 03 Jul 2015 16:04

Interesting thread. I totally agree with the need to be as objective as possible when reviewing, although we obviously all have our likes and dislikes when it comes to genre. I freely admit I'm not the biggest fan of shooters, but I do try and review them as fairly as I can and always give myself at least 24 hours to calm down if something has irritated me, just in case I was having an off day and consequently marked gameplay down unfairly. One does come across reviewers that seem ludicrously out of step, in particular one from the latter offerings from Gabriel Croft, that inevitably raise concerns of 'vote rigging'. However, I believe that the highest and lowest set of marks are not considered when it comes to scores re Hall of Fame status, so hopefully the odd rogue review does little overall harm.

Another thing I sometimes feel a touch concerned about is the old levels. I finally got round to catching up with the archive stuff and inevitably one's perceptions of just what makes a good level change over time as everything becomes more and more sophisticated. Is it valid to review a 2001 level through 2015 eyes? Tricky old business, isn't it. :D
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