Messing up reviews

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DJ Full
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by DJ Full » 04 Oct 2017 18:21

lol
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Jorge22
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Jorge22 » 04 Oct 2017 23:50

Lol, ok. But at least you did find the comments somewhat unfair, didn't you?
You don't need to answer. :)
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Phil » 05 Oct 2017 00:23

Marksdad wrote:
03 Oct 2017 17:09
Knowing the builder, I'm sure he'll be able to take the review comments in good grace.
Or at least laugh them off bravely in stoic silence...

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Tolle87 » 05 Oct 2017 15:27

I still haven't played the level and I can appreciate a different taste, but saying that reviewers give good marks on friend basis (or even worse - that some reviewers haven't even played the level before reviewing)....not okay. It's like "my review is realistic and others are giving good marks to a friend". Honestly, I'm surprised Michael allowed this.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by DJ Full » 05 Oct 2017 19:07

Tolle87 wrote:
05 Oct 2017 15:27
saying that reviewers give good marks on friend basis....not okay.
However, reviewers DO give good marks on friend basis, and enemy basis... you can find obvious examples.
that's why I waited so long with coming out on twitch. Didn't want people to rate the game because of me.

But I find neither this phenomenon, nor the recent review unfair. "Unfair" is when you understand the point of something but you still rate it ignoring that point. If a reviewer misses (all) the meaning(s) but still rates according to what he felt, that's what I need. still a valuable clue I need to make my games more self-explanatory. I should make them so if someone plays them after 100 years he'll still understand what he's playing. That's the only thing I can do because I cannot force anybody to understand the meaning. Recently I even heard an opinion Jesse's "The Wolf" is a "troll level", another opinion from a player who didn't know the road to release. You may be shocked but at least one player binned "Coyote Creek" because of "poor voice acting". There are simply people outside of our comfy TRLE box and we cannot blame them for not adapting to our homemade standards.

Cakeworld is exceptional because it was made in context known to the Forge Team (also for mugs to pair with Gingerbread Man, but I decided to take two extra weeks to polish the flaws and it backfired the worst way possible). If the people I actually made it for understood and enjoyed it, my message is 100% delivered and Gorty cannot "ruin my work" no matter what he says - this game is bulletproof like no other I ever made. And so will be the next one, for I will keep this only correct approach to make it so.

ALSO, I will not make a "proud artist mistake" and I won't fight the entire community because of one bad review among many. I don't have a so-called "self-respect", whatever it really is, and assuming it is really an unfabricated thing which was ever in existence in the first place.

Let's take an example of a "joke level being an excuse for mistakes"... you won't believe how many times I felt this about numerous levels I played. Were they real excuses or did they just feel like such? I can't know, I can't tell, but they still ruined the game for me so I rated how it felt. In fact even before playing a level I'm often close to binning one because of countless apologies listed in the readme - nothing infuriates me more than "sorry there's a bubble sound, that wasn't possible to fix" - often followed with "please consider that while rating" - for f***'s sake I will NEVER beg for high ratings even if tortured. Those cases are true cancer, in fact THIS is what Michael shouldn't accept... I would also ban any level which has a blue key on a blue maria doria pavement, or a golden key on a venetian carpet, or a grey underwater level on a grey rock... wait I would also ban any level which has pushables, now that would free a lot of server space... in fact I voted to ban pushables from BtB and I was of course ignored because we should "leave it to builders if they use it or not"... and so we got them for 70% of game runtime. Funny enough how pushables were accepted because "builders should have freedom" but the lara-killer grenade launcher and increased enemy HP were forced because "players should have challenge"... for heaven's sake there's nothing I hate more than a double standard, and it's ALWAYS in favor of the worse option... same for endless discussion between TREP and TRNG: you people already KNOW what will happen to the next BtB: it will be wonderful again, and nobody will play it because of lagging, and the builders like chronicles5 will be downrated for what isn't even their fault, and they won't feel rewarded anymore. Mr XY already declared it was his last BtB... I WONDER WHY. Dammit, I could take the leadership of BtB and I carelessly dropped it...

Gorty's review is the fairest thing among all this crap. If I have anything against it it's that it gives me absolutely no clue about what exactly the player's problem is: numerous flaws pointed out but I can't get a link to which part he actually means. I guess "repetitive" is the crossword snow, but what is "stretched" I have no idea, for I remember all 255 rooms and I cannot track one. That's the second, and last thing, I require from a review: being informative.

Simply put: throw any curses you can find on this game but be helpful. For now we wasted half of review page, then two forum pages for analysis, now I wasted another for replying to it while I could be repacking another TR2 level in that time instead... that's what I consider useful because someone recently spread a rumour on twitch that TR2 levels don't ever have any music, people of course believed that without verification and are avoiding TR2 levels because of that fabricated reason... not to mention the buggy multipatch exe which has the ceiling bump, which I replace as well, fixing what the devs messed up in the first place.
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Jorge22 » 05 Oct 2017 20:20

Excellent speech! :hello:

DJ, you're an anarchist! :laugh4:

I sincerely loved the fun and originality in Cakeworld. Could this or that have been better according to this or that reviewer? Well, they always can. But in the end nothing ever happens. Could the universe be better? I think so but at least it exists and there are those wow moments to balance the not so good ones. Etc. :)

---------------------

Oh and I'm not saying liking or disliking someone never has anything to do with how one views things. But I'm absolutely certain it's not enough to fake it. In fact, I make Tolle's words my own.
"I didn't care, friend. I wasn't there, friend. If it's the price of a pint that you need ask me again."

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Tolle87 » 05 Oct 2017 20:45

Jorge22 wrote:
05 Oct 2017 20:20
Oh and I'm not saying liking or disliking someone never has anything to do with how one views things.

Absolutely! I'm also not saying there are not friend/enemy based reviews, but the problem is when somebody calls certain review friendly-based ONLY because it differs from his own.
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Jorge22
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Jorge22 » 05 Oct 2017 21:07

Yes.

I was also thinking... Maybe there should be a specific boring reviews section for builders alongside the normal part for regular players like ourselves.

Although I don't recall any Gorty-made level thus far...
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by DJ Full » 13 Nov 2017 00:00

"Even Gabriel Crofts level has better light, texturing and design."
This I wouldn't forgive. This is war :mad:
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by MpGrill_trle » 12 Dec 2017 07:38

After reading the last two reviews from Larangl and Lara_fox_croft with their unfair writing and ratings, I had enough from this organised bulls***.
Sorry folks, but I'm out of here.
Cant take it .. just cant.
This is killing every energy inside me to continue level building.
Spending too much time of my life building levels to have to deal with these ˝reviewers˝ at the end.

Thanks for all the nice reviews through 10 years of my level building and everyone who liked my levels.

Goodbye

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Ryan » 12 Dec 2017 09:30

I can completely understand your decision, and I agree somewhat about those reviews, but my advice would be to not let the negativity drag you down so much or deter you from enjoying building. I haven't played all of your levels yet, but I haven't been disappointed by the ones I have played. You might want to focus on the glowing and positive reviews... :)
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by MichaelP » 12 Dec 2017 10:23

As I just mentioned in my email to you - you choose your own destiny, but I think this is another example of how overly sensitive some builders are.

As you say yourself - 10 years of building - 137 Reviews for the 10 Levels you have released and now 2 Reviews (=1.4%!) come in that you are not happy with - and you run away crying like a baby?

Sure the reviews are not pretty "feelgood" rewiews - but where exactly are they "unfair"? Just because most of the time only players who generally liked a level review it and hence provide more positive sentiments, does not mean that a review by someone who did NOT enjoy playing a level is automatically "unfair"... and nonetheless, if you from your perspective see anything "unfairly" represented in the comments, you can always reach out to the reviewers to clarify this and get it "corrected".
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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Mr XY » 12 Dec 2017 15:04

I think every builder goes through this at some point. Try to concentrate on the people that enjoyed your level and that motivate you aka the majority. :)

Throwing the towel because of two bad reviews is unreasonable.

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Jorge22 » 12 Dec 2017 18:23

Ditto.

I don't want to see you go. Furthermore, there's no real reason (at least a trle reason) for you to leave.

So, do stay. :)
"I didn't care, friend. I wasn't there, friend. If it's the price of a pint that you need ask me again."

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Re: Messing up reviews

Post by Phil » 12 Dec 2017 22:45


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