Unannounced Revised Levels

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Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by Phil » 29 Mar 2019 15:05

Here we go again. Dutchy has pointed out that my walkthrough for Tomb Raider - The Discovery doesn't jibe in several important aspects with the version he's playing, clearly indicating that the builder has released a revised version. If that's the case, there's no mention of it on the level info screen. As we've noted before, unannounced revisions play havoc with the walkthrough writers (and video artitsts) among us, and this is not fair either to the writers or to those players who rely on the walkthroughs. Once again, I implore that Michael either (1) refuse to host any revisions once the walkthrough has been posted (my preference) or (2) let the community know that the level has been revised, and when.

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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by MichaelP » 31 Mar 2019 09:07

Well, it's all in the communication. Indeed the builder had provided a revised version only a few days after the original release if I recall correctly, but she did not ask for that to be pointed out on the info page nor give the impression that the changes would be relevant in terms of the flow of the gameplay…
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by TombTitan » 02 May 2019 00:05

Ranpyon states in the Stuck thread that Michael Prager updated her download of The Dragon Pearl today. Once again there is no mention in the info page that this new download in incompatible with previous savegames and there are some revisions in gameplay, or merely the fact that the download was updated (as aspidetr.com did with its revised download).

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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 17 Jan 2020 09:08

I think there should always be a mention. And I agree with Phil - especially after the walkies have been published.
If the changes have no impact on the gameplay that should be mentioned too.
Just my (how many were they?) three cents.
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by MichaelP » 17 Jan 2020 11:18

If I can add my (however many) cents, then I think revisions should NOT AT ALL ever be done! I personally consider them a major annoyance - sorry to be blunt here

In 80+% of the cases they make little or no difference to the player experience whatsoever, but they create a ton of work - on the builder side of course, but also on my side, the walkthrough writer side, the reviewer side etc etc. Work which is frankly a complete waste of everyone's time, which could rather be used to build another level instead, write another walkthrough instead, play & review another level instead...

Now, I hear you say that revisions are needed in case things do not work and the level cannot be played/finished properly and I agree in that case that should be done. Arguably in those cases the level should not have been released in the first place and instead have gone through proper beta testing.

So again, I get it - as a builder you may feel you have to give it that extra little bit of perfection that only came to your mind after you released your level and got some feedback from players - but let's face it - generally people download, play, enjoy the experience, sometimes review and then move on...
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 17 Jan 2020 11:48

Accidents may happen, of course. But I agree that beta testing should be the norm, not just rushing on to release the level - people are quite able to wait for a week or two or three.
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by DJ Full » 17 Jan 2020 21:26

MichaelP wrote:
17 Jan 2020 11:18
Work which is frankly a complete waste of everyone's time
You might be in doubt because you don't go on twitch.
I met there many players who had trouble with stuff I didn't revise.
Recently I stopped hesitating at all, if it needs a fix, it does.

MichaelP wrote:
17 Jan 2020 11:18
in those cases the level should not have been released in the first place and instead have gone through proper beta testing
Go on, then. Try it. Try to make a flawless level. Fix like 200 errors.
Then see how you feel after you still get bashed for 3 or 4 you unintentionally left.
We're in times when players are unforgiving and revisions are needed more than ever.

MichaelP wrote:
17 Jan 2020 11:18
let's face it - generally people download, play, enjoy the experience, sometimes review and then move on...
No, there are waves of interest. People play. Then go. Then new ones play and go.
There will always be hundreds or thousands of people worth revising for.
woof

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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by nad » 17 Jan 2020 23:34

I have a problem revieving levels. My nickname (nad) is not in the picklist. So, when I want to reviev a level I must contact the admin, but nothing happens. Any hint?
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by vimmers » 18 Jan 2020 12:40

nad wrote:
17 Jan 2020 23:34
Any hint?
you just gave a big hint :D

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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by nad » 18 Jan 2020 13:45

Yes, I used the link to contact the admin, but nothing happened.
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by Treeble » 18 Jan 2020 17:10

The link is a "mailto", it should have opened an e-mail client on your computer but, on this day and age, most people use Gmail and the likes directly via the browser instead. What you need to do is to send an e-mail to Michael at michael@mprager.de and ask him to include you in the reviewer database (it's separate from the forums). He will likely ask for a bit more information to fill out your reviewer profile. :)

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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by nad » 18 Jan 2020 17:27

:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by lizard queen » 20 Jan 2020 21:02

MichaelP wrote:
17 Jan 2020 11:18
If I can add my (however many) cents, then I think revisions should NOT AT ALL ever be done! I personally consider them a major annoyance - sorry to be blunt here
I have to 100% agree here and not just because he's the "boss", but because he's absolutely right. I think if it is known that once a level is published that it is what it is, maybe builders will think twice about whether to publish too hastily or they will have to accept the consequences and learn from the experience. Michael also offered (in another thread, I believe) that if you want to publish a revised level, then it should be as a new level. I think this is a brilliant idea and if he is serious and willing to do this, then this should be the way of the future. Just my two cents (even though pennies no longer exist in Canada) :)
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 20 Jan 2020 21:30

I may have said it before: my opinion is that revised levels should - at least if it isn't just the odd fixing - be published as revised levels. The Adventures of Lara Croft - revised 1, 2, 3 etc., whichever.

If I publish something (a book, for instance) and later on become unhappy about it, too bad for me. With a little luck that edition will become a rarity and do something for my image - I can always do differently. Without it, I can always simply move on.
Last edited by Jorge22 on 23 Jan 2020 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unannounced Revised Levels

Post by ReggieTR » 23 Jan 2020 14:39

Michael has said he would rather revisions never happened at all. Can I ask then, if it would be acceptable if revisions were purely just bug fixes or stuff which otherwise breaks the game with which the author attaches a changelog to make the player and walkthrough authors aware of any such changes? I think such revisions ought to be welcome with appropriate communication.

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