Easter Class

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manarch2
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Easter Class

Post by manarch2 » 21 Apr 2012 13:12

Just a small suggestion: Because of the Aspide Easter Time are so many Easter themed levels out there, mainly in the "nc" class. Wouldn't it be good to set an Easter class for all those levels, just as the "Xmas" class?
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Re: Easter Class

Post by mugs » 21 Apr 2012 14:18

...or maybe a "holiday" class to encompass all of them.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by MichaelP » 21 Apr 2012 16:05

How about grouping them all under "Seasonal" ?
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Re: Easter Class

Post by mugs » 21 Apr 2012 16:16

:2thumbsup:
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Mytly
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Re: Easter Class

Post by Mytly » 21 Apr 2012 16:28

This seems to be the day when people are reading my mind regarding forum suggestions. :D (Hmm, I must be sending out telepathic signals ... better put on my tinfoil hat. :tongue2: :wacko: )

'Seasonal' class sounds good to me. I assume that other Easter levels that are not part of the Aspidertr Easter Time collection will also be included in this class? :)

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Re: Easter Class

Post by DJ Full » 24 Apr 2012 08:51

Why "Seasonal"??? In this case, all Xmas levels should also be named this way. Let's not break a clear pattern and let's not discriminate. Xmas should be Xmas, Easter should be Easter.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by MichaelP » 24 Apr 2012 09:26

Indeed - read carefully above... Xmas levels will also be classed as "Seasonal"... :wink: - the point being that classes with only a handful of levels do not make a lot of sense per se, even though I know we still do have a couple of those... :roll:
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Re: Easter Class

Post by DJ Full » 24 Apr 2012 10:35

I read carefully, however I am not sure I got what You mean. Do You want to merge two categories into one, because You think there are not enough levels within separate categories? If I got this right, just check this table:



Alien.................35
Atlantis.............17
Base/Lab...........129
Castle...............83
Cave/Cat...........174
City..................130
Coastal..............81
Cold/Snowy ........91
Desert...............16
Egypt................488
Fantasy/Surreal...32
Home.................94
Joke..................28
Jungle................97
Kids...................5
Library...............22
Mystery.............44
nc.....................446
Nordic/Viking.......8....<<- THIS'll change a LOT after BTB
Oriental..............62
Remake..............62
Rome.................35
Ship...................21
Shooter..............46
South America......81
South Pacific.......12
Steampunk..........15
Train...................6
Venice................54
Wild West............9
Xmas..................142
Young Lara..........23

Somehow, South Pacific category has only 12 levels, and no-one ever thought about merging it with Jungle.

Somehow, Venice and Rome have their own categories, while Tinnos doesn't have its own. No-one ever thought about creating such.

Somehow, the above categories have LESS levels than Xmas, and no-one ever thought about merging them with anything.

In my humble opinion, merging Easter with Xmas is like merging South America with Wild West (North America) and calling them all "America".


If I got it all wrong, please rectify me.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by manarch2 » 24 Apr 2012 12:49

Not to forget the "Wild West" class has actually 3 entries (the 9 comes from the seven Coyote Creek builders).

I also think it would be better to establish an independent Easter class - if I count right, there are 13 Easter themed levels, which would be larger than five other existent classes. And what about that older idea for a "Multiple Locations" - class for the multi-level games which has fallen into oblivion?
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Re: Easter Class

Post by DJ Full » 24 Apr 2012 14:27

"Multiple locations" class is as problematic as the "Seasonal" one, as both of them actually do not include a description of the level topic. E.g. the latest effort of Ranpyon is BOTH Train and Easter. If You write "Multiple locations", the player won't have an idea what the game is about. If You write "Seasonal", he still won't know if it's Xmas or Easter. But if You leave the "Xmas" levels alone and create the "Easter" category, a player will know at ONCE that Ran's game is about eggs, rabbits and fun.

The Sacred Emerald is ALL Peru, Desert (should be Nevada), Egypt, Tinnos (sorry... COLD/SNOWY), Castle and Tibet (sorry... ORIENTAL). But it's MAIN idea was to mix TR1 with TR3, so the level should be either classified as a "Remake", or we should think about creating an "Adaptation" category, or whatever else could describe a "modified" remake.

Titak's MoA: FC is both Home and Cave/Cat, not to mention it's hard to specify if a castle in a cat is yet a "cave/cat" or already a "castle". But it's all wrapped in mystery, and Titia's goal was the game should be astoundingly atmospheric. Thus, no "nc" here, but "Mystery"!


This is a primrose:

Image

There are two scientists in the whole world who can divide those plants in classes. One guy is Polish, the other one is Finnish. They keep arguing, to prove each of them is right with his classification. Each of them uses a DIFFERENT method of classification. They will NEVER get a compromise.
Both of them can stay with his own vision and there's no problem, because both have their followers, using either this, or that classification.
Our problem is we have only ONE trle.net and we HAVE to figure out the common keywords...

In my opinion, the level should be classified for it's MAIN idea. Like stated in examples above the picture. So a player, being in a certain mood, is able to choose the game depending on his/her actual mood. What really matters is a PURPOSE he/she wants to play in. It matters if he/she wants to be scared, relaxed, challenged, intrigued or isolated. Thus, we not only need a new "Easter" category. We would need to consider more purpose categories like:

"Survival" ----> e.g. Run Lara Run
"Test" ----> e.g. Raising Blocks, Rollercoaster
"Horror" ----> e.g. The Ring
"Isolation" ----> e.g. Temple of Prithvi, Scotland: Mystery of the Great Pyramid
"Hardcore" ----> e.g. CIL

So every player can download what he/she wants at a particular moment, without being disappointed it's not what he/she aimed for.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by eTux » 24 Apr 2012 17:47

I don't have anything against an "Easter" or Easter and Christmas combined in a "Seasonal" category - but as far as the other suggestions go - I find "Hardcore", "Isolation", "Surival" too vague and interpretative; the "Mystery" category we already have is already inclusive of the "Horror" category, and is more encompassing; while "Test" is a good idea, but would probably be best merged with "Joke" levels in a "Test/Joke" category.

I don't actually mind having a category made for only a handful of levels, if it describes those levels best - but I agree with the criticism The Cowboy made a while back - that the category system is somewhat inconsistent - mixing together gameplay (shooter, train, young lara, remake), base wad/tga sets (cave/cat, library, coastal, city), settings (Egypt, jungle, Rome, Base/lab, Ship, Cold/Snowy), atmosphere (Mystery, Fantasy/Surreal) and other types (Xmas, Kids, Joke) of criteria.

Apart from maybe the base wad/tga, which was probably more useful in the early level building days - I think most categories do justify their existence. However, I'm not sure how useful it is to go about revising the currently existing system. An ideal solution, possibly for the non discernible future, would be the tag system - that would allow to stuff a level in as many categories as it fits in (i.e. describing both gameplay and setting - or more if it's a multi-level multiple-location set, and anything else that would be relevant), and would thus dissolve any need to argue which one category it fits best.

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Re: Easter Class

Post by DJ Full » 24 Apr 2012 20:14

Hi eTux. Somehow I knew You'll be the next to reply :D

It's not like if I was obligatorily willing to have a "Horror" category. Those names I gave were suggestions only, and I wrote them for the same reason You are worried for - the need for consistence. And I think there is a classification method which could include all of our ideas. A tree. Yes, it's another botanical reference, but here You are:

Image

So You can precise Your search more and more, until You reach Your goal and throw away everything You don't wanna find. This solution works good on support sites for PC hardware - You know, Dell, nVidia and other brands applied such method of searching for drivers (choose system, bit version, card series and then the model).

Once again, those names I wrote are plain examples, not my will to be done.

EDIT:
But I'm strictly AGAINST merging Test with Joke. Because some joke levels are a real load of work and fun, let's not merge them with something that shouldn't even be called a "level".
Last edited by DJ Full on 24 Apr 2012 20:22, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by Soul » 24 Apr 2012 20:17

I actually really love the idea of a tree :2thumbsup:

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Re: Easter Class

Post by DJ Full » 24 Apr 2012 20:22

I thought this way we could BOTH create new categories AND keep the old ones.
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Re: Easter Class

Post by eTux » 24 Apr 2012 21:02

DJ Full wrote:It's not like if I was obligatorily willing to have a "Horror" category. Those names I gave were suggestions only, and I wrote them for the same reason You are worried for - the need for consistence.
...
Once again, those names I wrote are plain examples, not my will to be done.
Ok - I concede there, I should've probably picked up that you were just trying to illustrate a point and not actually suggesting those as potential categories :)
DJ Full wrote:And I think there is a classification method which could include all of our ideas. A tree. Yes, it's another botanical reference, but here You are:
...
So You can precise Your search more and more, until You reach Your goal and throw away everything You don't wanna find. This solution works good on support sites for PC hardware - You know, Dell, nVidia and other brands applied such method of searching for drivers (choose system, bit version, card series and then the model).
This is a nice idea - but unless I understood it correctly - this doesn't solve what I actually consider to be the problem with the current system of categorizing levels - tree or no tree - the levels end up being pigeonholed in one category.

I'll illustrate via an example - let's take "Mysts of Avalon" - the one-category-system would require us or, preferably, Titia herself to decide whether to categorize it by its settings (which one - the house, the caves or the crypt?), by its gameplay (exploration? puzzles? mild shooter?) or by some other arcane reasoning. The tagging system would be more fluid and truer to describing what the level is actually like - you could categorize it as all of the following: home, cave, castle, exploration or, even if you want something more specific - stuff like cutscenes, built-with-TRNG, training-level and so on - though there would be the problem of not going completely overboard with the tags or equalizing them to be useable for all levels.

But I suppose no one is arguing that the 1 category system is better than the tag system, I'm just holding out on the hope that there eventually will be a practical way to implement tagging, so I see it to be pointless to improve the former system if the long-term goal might actually be to switch to the latter.
DJ Full wrote:But I'm strictly AGAINST merging Test with Joke. Because some joke levels are a real load of work and fun, let's not merge them with something that shouldn't even be called a "level".
I don't see how this is anything but your personal bias - both test and joke levels are, as far as I know, built mostly with the same intent - to present an idea. It might be more humorous or more practical, but the aim is similar enough to consider them as part of the same category. I'm sorry if I'm being an argumentative bastard here, I just can't resist a good debate on occasion :D

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