Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use trle

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sirkenneth
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Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use trle

Post by sirkenneth » 24 May 2016 17:30

The 20th anniversary might be a great reason to get the level design staff of the original games to use this level editor. I've always craved some new Tomb Raider action that has that older, more authentic feel. With Eidos employing Square Enix to make TR games, anything new (including a potential 20th anniversary game) has that impostor feel, of game designers who don't understand the true dynamics of Tomb Raider. If the ex-Core Design staff were to put out their own 20th anniversary TR game, it would be immediately shut down by Eidos (as actually happened 10 years ago).

What they can't shut down, however, is the original developers using this level editor. Think of it- newbies that like the weird new impostor games can have their fun, while we on the other hand, can have our much more authentic celebration over here. Plus, this still being a thriving community many years on means that there would be no shortage of help, should they run into any technical problems.

At the very least, they could show some sketches of some of their unreleased levels, and we could re-create them here.

To aid in the quest, here's a compilation of people who designed the levels of TR 1-5:

TR 1&2 were mostly constructed by Heather Gibson and Neal Boyd. In an interview she had with Ash, she broke down who made what level for the first two games- http://www.core-design.com/interview3.html

Tomb Raider l Levels

Manor - Heather
Caves - Heather
City of Vilacabamba - Heather
Lost Valley - Neal
St Francis Folly - Heather
Colosseum - Neal
Palace Midas - Neal
The Cistern - Heather
Tomb of Tihocan - Heather
City of Khamoon - Heather
Sanctuary of the Scion - Toby Gard
Natla’s Mines - Neal
Atlantis - Neal
The Great Pyramid - Neal

Tomb Raider ll Levels

Manor - Heather
The Great Wall - Neal
Venice - Heather
Bartoli’s Hideout - Heather
Opera house - Heather
Offshore Rig - Neal
Diving area - Neal
40 Fathoms - Neal
Wreck of the Maria Doria - Neal
Living Quarters - Neal
The Deck - Neal
Tibetan Foothills - Neal
Barkhang Monastery - Heather
Catacombs - Heather
Ice Palace - Heather
Temple of Xian - Richard Morton
Floating Islands - Heather
The Dragons Lair - Heather

It seems that after 2, she switched teams to help develop Project Eden. Where it gets interesting is that early in development of number 3, she can be seen developing a level with dogs and court members. Watch the following youtube video at around 4:30- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcenr83_o0

For games 3-5, it starts to get a little murky as to who did what, but here's what I pulled of the TR wiki:


TR3

level designers

Peter Duncan
Andy Sandham
Richard Morton
Jamie Morton

4
Adrian Smith?
Andrea Cordella and Pete Duncan (Level designer)

5
Level Designers: Andrea Cordella, Richard Morton, Andy Sandham, Joby Wood


As for 6, I've no idea who did what, plus it was a very different engine, but I'm sure they'd be most welcome.


So that's a list of the designers involved. I've no idea how to contact them. Maybe someone like ASH could help?
http://tomb-of-ash.com

What are your thoughts? I've never set up a partition before, so any ideas would be appreciated.

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by Titak » 24 May 2016 22:23

Joby Wood was also part of TR4 I think since there are files called "joby*****".
Not that it matters much in this case since you did mention his name for TR5, but it made me curious. :D

And don't forget about Philip Campbell who designed most, if not all, Gold levels for TR1, TR2 and TR3. :2thumbsup:
He was also part of the team of writers of the official TRLE manual.
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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by sirkenneth » 25 May 2016 09:17

Nice.

I forgot about the bonus levels. Keep bringing in the names.

I've never done an online petition before, so I'll look into what options there are.
http://tomb-of-ash.com has interviews with several of these people, so I'm guessing he has their contact details- I should probably give him a buzz.

If I can get an online petition going, I might contact a few gaming channels on youtube and try and get some momentum happening.

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by vimmers » 25 May 2016 11:31

first welcome to the forum
second its a good idea
third but but but
fourth seeing what the community can create with the leveleditor
i don't think that those people you mentioned can match or compete
whit Titia aka (titak), psiko,uvavoo,Leroy, just to name some names
but i would love to see a anniversary level

ohh and maybe your tread fit better here viewforum.php?f=27
rgs vimmers
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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by sirkenneth » 25 May 2016 12:27

Don't want to undermine the community made levels in any way- I would play ANY of these community levels over what Crystal Dynamics/Square Enix are putting out. This community is where there the true spirit of Tomb Raider resides, and is exactly why I came here.

For a comparison of my intentions, this year, John Romero made a new Doom level after about 22 years. The internet went mad. For fans of that game, having one of the originals make a new level was a very big deal. For Tomb Raider fans, the whole reason we're here making levels in the first place, is because of some of the exceptional levels these people made in the past.

For some of us, these people really are rock stars. And to make new levels, SOME OF THEM WILL NEED HELP. That means YOU. ALL OF YOU. Whether it's a technical problem they need help with, or maybe they have some level sketches that we could bring to fruition, this is something that could only work through banding together as a community.

If this starts to get on-line attention, people are going to be coming to this site in droves. First they'll download their levels, but then they will want more. They will read which levels are rated the highest by the community, and they will want to download these levels. YOUR LEVELS.

A lot of people weren't even aware that Chronicles came with a level editor, but if this works out, I predict you'll see a lot of new internet traffic coming your way, and a lot of NEW people joining, wanting to put up THEIR OWN new levels.

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by JesseG » 26 May 2016 03:28

Getting levels from them would be something, but it would be neat even just to have them visit us. It would be fun to see their reactions to the levels we've created, alongside the tools and engines we have built on our own. And I'm sure we would badger them with all sorts of questions and get them to share some of their level design wisdom... :)
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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by sirkenneth » 30 May 2016 11:49

PROGRESS

I emailed Ash who is in contact with 100+ Core Design staff members (apparently on some kind of private message board). He asked me to write a message that he could then send on, posted into their board. I wrote something in a very grovelling tone (quite nervous knowing I'm talking to my heroes), he posted it, and a few of them "liked" it.

Hopefully he's okay with me quoting his email, but he wrote, "I'd still encourage you to create that petition so I could then bump the post with numbers of people signed that petition."

It's small, but it's definitely a start.

Here's where all of you come in. I'm the new guy here, but the rest of you have been here for years, so I want it to be in YOUR WORDS. What site(s) should we use for the petition? How do we word it? I want to make this a community thing reflecting your feelings. With that up and running, I'll then contact some other sites and youtube gaming channels to build some momentum.

So, what are your thoughts?

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by mugs » 30 May 2016 22:46

I think you need to contact MichaelP directly with this proposal. He may have some beneficial information to share with you, particularly with regards to a petition and I'm not sure he's monitoring this conversation.
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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by Ashka » 14 Jun 2016 14:15

sirkenneth wrote:PROGRESS

I emailed Ash who is in contact with 100+ Core Design staff members (apparently on some kind of private message board). He asked me to write a message that he could then send on, posted into their board. I wrote something in a very grovelling tone (quite nervous knowing I'm talking to my heroes), he posted it, and a few of them "liked" it.

Hopefully he's okay with me quoting his email, but he wrote, "I'd still encourage you to create that petition so I could then bump the post with numbers of people signed that petition."

It's small, but it's definitely a start.

Here's where all of you come in. I'm the new guy here, but the rest of you have been here for years, so I want it to be in YOUR WORDS. What site(s) should we use for the petition? How do we word it? I want to make this a community thing reflecting your feelings. With that up and running, I'll then contact some other sites and youtube gaming channels to build some momentum.

So, what are your thoughts?
Hi guys,
yes some of Core's ex members are interested in this but not so overly excited overall. Perhaps a petition will make them more interested?

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by Klona » 19 Jun 2016 00:44

I think the petition would work well on TRF since it would get a lot more attention there. :D

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Rough wording of the petition

Post by sirkenneth » 01 Jul 2016 12:02

Here's a rough draft of the petition I'm going to put up. I'll definitely post it at TRF, but also at 'petition.org' type sites.

What do you think of the wording? I'll happily change any of it to reflect your feelings. I definitely want to say something to bring more traffic here.

Ken




It's the 20th anniversary of Tomb Raider this year, and current Tomb Raider games are made by Square Enix- not Core Design, the original creators. Back in 2000, Core Design released a level editor that came with the PC version of Tomb Raider Chronicles. This led to an online community where people post their own levels and chat about them on a forum. To this day, trle.net is a thriving community with many people posting their own creations, utilising an updated version of the original TR engine.

To celebrate the 20th anniversary with a much more authentic feel, we are pleading that the staff from Core Design make a few levels using the TR Chronicles level editor, and post them online at trle.net.

Perhaps also, you have some sketches of levels that were never made, that we could help recreate. Please post any of your photos and memories. But most of all, please post a few levels. If you run into any technical problems, there are countless members here on their forum that would be willing to help.

And while you're there, have a look at some of our user generated levels, and tell us what you think. :)

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by Titak » 01 Jul 2016 15:08

The TR Chronicles editor?
That is not the editor we are using. The TRLE is based on the TR4 engine, not the Chronicles engine.
So I think it would be better to simply call it by its original name: Tomb Raider Level Editor. :)


It would actually be interesting to see what they could do with TRNG. :jump4:
But that's too much to ask I think.
I'm guessing they already lost touch with the LE and will need to relearn stuff. And learning all the TRNG stuff...
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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by sirkenneth » 01 Jul 2016 19:07

That explains a few things! lolllllllllllllll

this is why you run things past a community :blush:

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by eTux » 02 Jul 2016 15:53

Interesting thread. I'm only wondering if a petition is the right way to go about it, or at least call it a petition?

I mean - they are not in a position of authority/power over us, and as private people who may or may not have moved on long ago to other projects - so I'm not sure what good a petition would be? There's no reason binding them to its results, return to a time-consuming hobby, working with a dated engine that is popular with a subculture of Tomb Raider fans. A big part of the community's appeal is that it is a labour of love for most of us working on it, not something we do because of petitions :)

This isn't to say that I find this to be an unworthy goal or would obstruct it in any way - but I would maybe rephrase it as an "appeal" rather than a "petition" :)

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Re: Petition idea- let's get the Core Design staff to use tr

Post by sirkenneth » 03 Jul 2016 15:50

Good point. Let's make it 'appeal'-ing

Plus, how would you sum up the history of this engine and its thread for the general public (or a newbie like myself)? This seems to be the only place you can get a new fix of that old TR feel. I'd like to draw as many people to this site as possible. Square Enix can place all the Lara Croft themed aspects in a game as they like, but to actually feel like Tomb Raider, you need the old controls and the system of blocks that the original games worked off.

As for the upgrades applied to this engine, could any changes be explained to the Core staff to make it easier for them?

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