Level complexity?

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Alexandre Simões
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Level complexity?

Post by Alexandre Simões » 29 Apr 2014 23:20

:? I'm working on a level that is supposed to give off that 'nevada vibe' , and I've been trying to stick to nevada stuff. Which means nevada objects, textures and construction type. And that means that it's mostly stuff that appeared in TR3. So traps, Tr3 traps. Puzzles, switches, level progression, TR3 style. I'm starting to wonder, how many bad reviews will that raise? Just looking for some advice, maybe it will be deemed as boring... Thanks anyway :roll:

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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Dutchy » 30 Apr 2014 11:50

Did you look at trsearch, there are many "newer" objects that might fit your need. I understand your concern, with all these high tech levels by experienced builders coming out it's quite scary for a starting builder. If you build a nice interesting level the reviews won't be bad. The reviews are primarily meant to be guides for the builders to see where they can improve levelbuilding.

Where did I see that name before
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Jorge22
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Jorge22 » 30 Apr 2014 18:51

You know where you saw it, lol. It was I who told him he should play some of the best levels to get ideas, try to present new puzzles instead of just keys and switches etc. Otherwise it could be deemed "boring". So, I'm guilty as charged. ;)

(I also told him he should study maths and physics which in itself is somewhat complex... :-P )
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by larabiker301 » 02 May 2014 03:42

NGLE has a bunch of things which are very useful in making innovative and original custom levels. There's no telling what you, or anyone for that matter, can come up with. There's stuff like global triggers (create things like Lara's personal flashlight, change weather at the drop of a dime, control timers, cause things to happen when something else happens etc.), special effects like: burning static objects, attaching color mist to objects (my favorite is adding a fire effect to a skeleton's head) and rotating objects, and there's a bunch of material at trsearch like Dutchy said like: new outfits, weapons, animations, static and animating objects, etc. It's always good to get some inspiration like looking at other good custom levels and see how they do things and see if you can make it even better or different all together. I don't think level's are generally boring unless the only thing that goes on is running around slowly progressing with literally nothing happening in the middle.

--Who knows, maybe you'll be our first 10.00 rated custom game. Never get down and I can't wait to play any levels you come up with. :)
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Titak » 02 May 2014 15:00

A more detailed level containing all sorts of new high-res objects and puzzels and whatnot is not always better by definition.
An old school style level can still be very worth playing. :2thumbsup:

When speaking for myself:
I started levelbuilding back in 2001 when the editor first came out.
All we could do back then was make old school levels. At first we weren't even able to copy object from wads into other wads or change the textures on objects.
So for me that's an area I have already explored for a couple of years. Been there, done that.
This, for me at least, is the reason that I've moved on to the more detailed and advanced TRNG stuff when it arrived.

I still believe that using the old school stuff when first starting levelbuilding is still the best way the start.
All that TRNG stuff can be overwhelming and not really knowing the basics first can mess things up tremendously. And a messed up level can really put builders down, which is a shame.

Ofcourse it is up to you whether or not you abandon this TR3 style project with the TR3 resources and move on to more detailed and high-tech stuff but I'd say if you like working with the TR3 stuff, then, please, keep going with it. :2thumbsup:
It should after all also be fun for YOU to build the level(s). :D
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Jorge22 » 02 May 2014 17:31

There will never be a game rated 10, lol, somebody always has complaints of some sort. Anyway, yeah, listen to Titak, she's one of the best. And Dutchy's written loads of walkies. And larabiker speaks knowingly. I actually like what I've seen so far, the mixing of dark and clear in the caves, the textures actually looking like Nevada instead of Egypt in Nevada etc. Let's see how it turns up in the end, I'm curious. :)
Last edited by Jorge22 on 03 May 2014 00:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexandre Simões
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Alexandre Simões » 02 May 2014 20:07

Thank you all :D I've been working with the original editor, which raises some problems, i.e. special triggers. Not being able to overlap them means I can't use camera targets when using a switch :P Yeah, the overlaping trigger thing's been the major setback. Anyway, thank you all for the comments, I'm trying to keep it old school for this one :D

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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Titak » 02 May 2014 23:14

There are workarounds for the overlapping special triggers issue. :D
One of the most famous is the "rollingball trick".

What you do is place a rollingball on a one tile slope in a seperate room that Lara can't get into.
On the slope, right underneath the wollingball you place the heavy-trigger for the camera (with a certain amount of time) and the target-trigger for the camera-target.
The rollingball is triggered by the switch. (switch-trigger for the switch itself and a regular trigger for the rollingball)

Do remember that if you place a special trigger (switch, key, heavy, anti-trigger, etc) you can place other regular triggers on top.
All those regular triggers will then also act as those special triggers, meaning they will only be activated when the special trigger is activated.

If you run into more issues like this, or totally different ones, feel free to post it here.
That's also what the forum is for after all. :D
Lots of people around who can help out. :D
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by larabiker301 » 03 May 2014 01:08

May I ask as to what is a camera-target? Isn't that the thing that makes Lara's head glance in a specified direction, no?
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Alexandre Simões
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Alexandre Simões » 03 May 2014 03:26

Thank you, Titak, will if I do :D The camera target makes the camera show something completely independent from lara, which means if she is in a room and the target is in another room, you will see the image from the camera's POV. It's similar to a flyby camera's POV :D

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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Titak » 04 May 2014 11:58

You are both correct.
The camera-target can be used for those two things.

In fact, any other moveable can also be set as camera-target with the trigger. :D
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by EssGee » 04 May 2014 12:38

Titak wrote: In fact, any other moveable can also be set as camera-target with the trigger. :D


:-o Gosh, I never knew that.
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Titak » 04 May 2014 13:17

I rarely play custom levels but I'm now seeing it used in psiko's Hypersquare where doors that go up are used as camera target. (you can see the camera following the upwards movement of the door).
So the camera-terget gives a static view of something while a moveable, like a door, can give a more dynamic view because the camera follows the movement/animation of the object. :D
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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Dutchy » 04 May 2014 15:36

EssGee wrote:
Titak wrote: In fact, any other moveable can also be set as camera-target with the trigger. :D


:-o Gosh, I never knew that.
:lol:

Look what happens when you make a raising door like the one used with the cog wheel the camera target, the camera moves upwards with the door opening (this camera target trick can come in handy when you reach object limits)

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Re: Level complexity?

Post by Alexandre Simões » 04 May 2014 15:55

:D Object limit isn't usually a problem for me, but now room limit? Geez, I run out of rooms in a blink of an eye, and my maps aren't that big :P

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