General Level Editing Thread

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DJ Full
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 08 Apr 2017 01:33

EssGee wrote:
08 Apr 2017 00:02
it may be helpful to walk through again Sapper's User Guide
Look at the 35th screen of that, it shows exactly where I am :)

"If you have opened the WAD file you can then create a sounds.txt that will contain only those sounds used in the wad file"

As I understand this fragment: creating sounds.txt from the wad, therefore Sounds.txt currently irrelevant.
But that's the moment when the values reset - and indeed, they reset to those from default sounds.txt.
To me it looks like the program still refers to sounds.txt when it shouldn't do it at all...
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by EssGee » 08 Apr 2017 02:05

No. If you followed that instruction on image 35 - you would generate a new sounds.txt in the Sounds.txt tab. At this stage it's not saved anywhere. This would then show you what the values are in your wad. If those values are not changing (i.e they appear to be reverting to the original values), then you either haven't output new sam and sfx files and grabbed them from the TRLE Sound Editor/ Output folder and then used these to replace the ones that are with your wad. Also in that Output folder is the new sounds.txt. If your wad was named DJ then the file would be named DJ_sounds.txt. The next time you can load this directly into TRLE Sound Editor. You need to choose Open> Text File and browse to that DJ_sounds.txt file. It will then open directly in the Sounds.txt tab of the editor and you can make additional changes.
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 08 Apr 2017 03:51

EssGee wrote:
08 Apr 2017 02:05
No. If you followed that instruction on image 35 - you would generate a new sounds.txt in the Sounds.txt tab. At this stage it's not saved anywhere. This would then show you what the values are in your wad.
Ah, so it "displays" not "generates"? That's a big difference - "generate" usually means precisely to "create a file".
If those values are not changing (i.e they appear to be reverting to the original values), then you either haven't output new sam and sfx files and grabbed them from the TRLE Sound Editor/ Output folder and then used these to replace the ones that are with your wad
I did. I surely did. Output, grab, replace. And there's only one sound editor on my computer, precisely in order to avoid grabbing from wrong location. I really troubleshot in advance as much as I could...
Also in that Output folder is the new sounds.txt. The next time you can load this into TRLE Sound Editor...
Yes, this always works for me. I have no issues if my custom aet17_sounds.txt is the source = it displays correct values. They only reset if I load the wad and try to generate (display?) its values as sounds.txt.

Sigh... You know - I will make a video. I think that's the only solution. So you see what I do, and - more important - you see what I don't do.
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by EssGee » 08 Apr 2017 09:46

They only reset if I load the wad and try to generate (display?) its values as sounds.txt.
OK now I see what you mean.
Yes, you are right. When you load a wad into TRLE sound editor and then generate a sounds.txt from it, the editor uses its internal reference - standard sounds.txt values and marks the associated sound banks with the letter(s) you have assigned. It has to do this because essentially it is recovering sfx information from your wad. It doesn't read the existing values in your wad. That's just how the program works. Once you have done this, you can then edit the newly created sounds.txt to how you want it and you save it for later use. Once you have the new sounds.txt you don't load your wad into the editor anymore, you just load the new sounds.txt. Use Wadmerger to check if your wad values have been applied with the new sam and sfx files.
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 08 Apr 2017 14:34

EssGee wrote:
08 Apr 2017 09:46
When you load a wad into TRLE sound editor, the editor uses standard sounds.txt values and marks the associated sound banks with the letter(s) you have assigned. It doesn't read the existing values in your wad.
Understood. The source is partially the wad, partially the default template...
Mother of God, this couldn't be more misleading. In any other case you just load a wad and read from it.
I will ask Sapper if making it possible is possible, it would make stuff a lot, lot easier.

But somehow, now the program shows updated values even if I load the wad not my custom sounds.txt.
So it looks like it was using default sounds.txt till a certain moment, but then remembered the changes.
I was curious. I deleted all sounds.txt files, custom and default. Also [MRUFiles] in TRLESoundEditor.ini.
Even with NO reference files left, the program remembers the values I customized. The further the weirder.
Use Wadmerger to check if your wad values have been applied with the new sam and sfx files.
TRLE Sound Editor: pendulum 4 50 30 0, swoosh 4 50 30 0
WM Sound Manager: pendulum 4 63 38 0, swoosh 4 63 38 0
Plainly looks like WM does register my change but uses a different scale.
Which matches neither "real values" nor "unreal values" of TRLE Sound Editor.
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by EssGee » 08 Apr 2017 16:28

Yep Wadmerger converts range of values 0-100 in sounds.txt to a percentage of 0-127. Let's not even go there why.... it was some routine in the Wadmerger code that was never fixed. Don't question it... just accept it as another annoying quirk of Wadmerger. :wink:
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 08 Apr 2017 18:33

EssGee wrote:
08 Apr 2017 16:28
Yep Wadmerger converts range of values 0-100 in sounds.txt to a percentage of 0-127. Let's not even go there why....
I won't.
However, inputting these sound parameters with a MIDI controller came to mind anyway...

I will forward the no-reference memorizing to Sapper. If it's a bug, he'll know.
Meanwhile I'll just stick to the default procedure of saving/loading custom sounds.txt.

Thanks for all the help given :)
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by sapper » 10 Apr 2017 03:05

When a wad is opened the .sfx and .sam will be opened too if they exist.

The wad only contains slot numbers in the animations.
The sam contains the sample names.
The sfx contains the rest of the sound info.

If you delete the sam and sfx for the wad and open the wad the editor uses default sounds.txt for sound values and sample names.

If you want to see what the vol pit etc values are for a wad, open only the sfx file in the editor and inspect.

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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 10 Apr 2017 13:22

Thanks for the insight, Sapper :)
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by Hitsumei » 17 Apr 2017 02:47

I am creating a puzzle where Lara needs to shoot vases to open a door. How do I have five shot vases open a door? I guess there are heavy triggers for the door, but do I place them on each vase Lara shoots, and click on 1 for one vase, 2 for the 2nd one, 3 for the 3rd one, 4 for the 4th one and 5 for the 5th one when setting the trigger?
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by eRIC » 17 Apr 2017 12:00

yes , that's it , 5 heavy triggers for the door all with one ( different) codebit clicked
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 20 Apr 2017 07:49

Erased my heavy shatter post, it's solved and described in the NG thread of the blue forum.

Now I got a flipeffect: play background track 047 then previous ambience: $2000, 193, $2F.
An identical flipeffect but supposed to play track 048 follows shortly after: $2000, 193, $30.
If you reach the 2nd track trigger before the 1st track ends, the 2nd track should take over.
But the 2nd track is ignored instead. If you know how to defeat that, please ring my bell :)
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by OverRaider » 20 Apr 2017 13:40

Behavior of triggering audio tracks in TRNG are something what really should be fixed. I am trying to solve this problem for years DJ Full, and still haven`t come with obsolete solution. It is obviously meant to be used as channel1 for looped background audio and channel2 for single soundtrack triggers but I (and I assume you too) can`t stand when background and foreground audios are playing at a same time. I used that flipeffect play sound with final restore of old track extra:background which stops background track and the particular track takes place instead but then when you reach another such trigger as this one then that trigger will be ignored (same as you discribed above) and (almost) all further triggers for audio will be messed up or ignored. I also experimented with organizer to reduce the channel1 to volume 0 when channel2 is triggered and put the neccessary seconds in organizer to volume back up the background music once the foreground finishes, and it worked well sort of, if you save and reload the volume gets back to default and other than that, even though if you would solve the problem with saving of this organizer there still would be problems when you interrupt it with different backgorund music, for example going from inside area to outside, where the background music changes of course.

What I use now for my current project is Customize=CUST_SET_OLD_CD_TRIGGER, ENABLED and use flipeffect play sound on channel1 for each audio (unless you need to use channel2 for special situation like voice-overs) and it kind of works but still not as it should, I mean when you interrupt single audio with background music, sadly the single audio stops right there and background music starts playing (and it should in a way that the background music should be triggered "silently" and activated right after single audio stops), so I tried to design the level to adapt to this behavior, but don`t forget that single audios should be between numbers 000-105 and background between 106-255, also always export trigger into triggergroup with +TGROUP_SINGLE_SHOT flag (for single audios) if you need to spread the trigger zone on more than one tiles...so far this is my "solution" but I am not even 60% satisfied :? well better than nothing I guess and I definitely won`t adapt to playing background and foreground music at a same time, that`s just destroys atmosphere and it is earhurting...
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by DJ Full » 21 Apr 2017 15:02

Ahpff... Marek, OLD_CD_TRIGGER is not an option here - it would destroy Greenkey's voiceover which is set on the foreground channel opposed to the background. +TGROUP_SINGLE_SHOT is something I always forget about so thanks for a reminder - but in this case I don't have use any of these: instead I export everything and trigger my sound on distance from item which is already in the game. This saves the amount of pink triggers and placed items :)

If all audios have both one-shot and loop option but some are meant for one-shot and other for loop, it's really messed up, unless it's us who don't understand something...

This is my current workaround.

TriggerGroup=271, $2000, 193, $2F ; 047.ogg, one-shot background, then restore old
TriggerGroup=276, $2000, 129, $2E,>; 046.ogg, one-shot foreground, possibly irrelevant
........................$2000, 68, $30 ; 048.ogg, one-shot background, don't restore old
TriggerGroup=277, $2000, 68, $164 ;100.ogg, looped background again
Organizer=16,FO_TICK_TIME,-1,0,276, 1391,277

So the only thing I changed is removing the second "restore" flag so two of them don't occur in a row. Instead the organizer waits until 046.ogg ends and then restores the ambience manually, with a separate loop trigger.

I now think I remember a similar problem and a similar workaround from my old project but back then I knew so little and I was doing so much trial and error that I couldn't call it "research" and I didn't note anything down.
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Re: General Level Editing Thread

Post by OverRaider » 21 Apr 2017 20:02

DJ Full wrote:
21 Apr 2017 15:02
Organizer=16,FO_TICK_TIME,-1,0,276, 1391,277
I will try your workaround tomorrow as I have to go now but just one question before I go

What version of TRNG are you using? in my version 1.2.2.7+ that section of command where you put -1 it says:
Currently unused. It could be used in future versions.
You can type IGNORE in this field.

So what`s that -1 supposed to mean? :D
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