Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

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dinne
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Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by dinne » 13 Sep 2020 20:25

Me and other builders during the time thought about opening this topic.
What about adding a donation button in our levels pages? Technically making levels -nowadays- takes a really huge and often unmanageable load of time, and the best levels have behind an incredible effort, so I think that it would be nice to be able to give a personal reward to some levels when you really enjoy them. This, considering that streamers already get some money by playing our levels for 1-2 hours, but we have no frame to even get this small possibility. So I think it could be the right moment to implement this possibility while refining this website.
Non-builders or newbies probably don't know that, but, for example in my case, to build my level in BtB competition I took 4 months or -everyday- effort, literally -from the first minute in the morning to the last-, and I'm really not exaggerating, my life was only made of building and scripting and literally nothing else for 4 full months, also this was possible -only- because I'm jobless from long time, otherwise I could've never done that of course. Same goes for other participants, as they told me, that makes me think it goes for many others in general. So I think having this small possibility is a fair thing.

I don't want this discussion to translate into:"nO yOu bUiLd fOr PaSsIoN, mOnEy dEsTrOyS eVeRyThInG!" (as happened on TRF 2 years ago) because I'm not proposing to implement a dynamic where you -request- money prior to finish a level, or, -expect- money, or, -solicit- for donations; neither this could become a job or install any dynamic of any sort that would advantage only someone etc. Also, individual donations are private, so it won't happen anything like a "trend" where people are "expected" to donate even when they don't feel to.
Lastly, let's be honest, each excellent level would take something like 5-20 € max in total, or anyway only small amounts, that aren't going to motivate someone to build more if they get more donations (or to discourage newbies because they don't get consistent amounts, since no one would).
Let's say the only thing to moderate would be to suppress threads here that request money, but I tend to think they won't spawn.

Could this idea be taken in consideration during this revision? To me, it seems fair, safe, legal, and kind.

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SrDanielPonces
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by SrDanielPonces » 13 Sep 2020 20:46

I agree. Wouldn't hurt something like that!

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lizard queen
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by lizard queen » 13 Sep 2020 20:47

Hi dinne :hi:
From the TRLE Manual Legal Disclaimer:

"Your levels must be distributed free of charge. Neither you nor anyone else
may sell, rent, lease or commercially exploit these levels in any way. You
may only exchange them at no charge to licensed users of Tomb Raider
Chronicles.

When you publicly distribute your level you automatically grant Core Design
Ltd. and/or Eidos Interactive the perpetual, royalty free right to use, modify,
license and distribute your level in any way we choose."


So as builders, we kind of knew going in that it would have to be a labour of love.
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SrDanielPonces
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by SrDanielPonces » 13 Sep 2020 20:58

dinne never said we were selling the levels, people are donating the builders for their work, not to literally pay to play any levels. Also, if you want to go to the terms, ripping objects from any tr games, modding, using any external tools (wadmerger, Tomb Editor, NGLE, Dxtre3d) is also illegal.

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dinne
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by dinne » 13 Sep 2020 21:10

(For who doesn't know: donations systems on internet work that you give money to an already existing thing, not before, and not on demand or on "promise". You give it as reward freely with no mandatory step to enjoy the product/service, and not as an exchange; if it becomes an exchange, then the legal line is surely crossed at that point).

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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by Jorge22 » 13 Sep 2020 21:20

lizard queen wrote:
13 Sep 2020 20:47
Hi dinne :hi:
From the TRLE Manual Legal Disclaimer:

"Your levels must be distributed free of charge. Neither you nor anyone else
may sell, rent, lease or commercially exploit these levels in any way. You
may only exchange them at no charge to licensed users of Tomb Raider
Chronicles.

When you publicly distribute your level you automatically grant Core Design
Ltd. and/or Eidos Interactive the perpetual, royalty free right to use, modify,
license and distribute your level in any way we choose."


So as builders, we kind of knew going in that it would have to be a labour of love.
I totally understand, but this is exactly what came to mind as soon as I started reading.

But I'm no lawyer. Maybe you should ask Phil, the one qualified member?
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Teone
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by Teone » 13 Sep 2020 21:25

You can just put a DONATE.URL file in your game package

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Alex Chap
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by Alex Chap » 13 Sep 2020 22:19

Hi everyone,

I think Dinne mentioned everything and just as her and if Michael is okay with that, I totally support donations to builders on their pages if players feel to do so.
We know about Core Design rule that says to not sell custom levels, but remember that donations are different from paying a level to play it. Some builders are very dedicated to the crafting of their games and spend several months and even years to release them for the joy of players, if builders could have the opportunity to be greated with donations that would be nice, especially considering nowadays standards. Even TRLE streamers get money from their diffusions.

I was myself planning to have a donate button on my personal website and it's not different from the proposal. It's just up to Michael now.
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by MichaelP » 14 Sep 2020 15:25

Interesting idea and indeed I agree this is not about "selling", hence no issue at all with the trle legal statement, but about people voluntarily donating money to a person who has made their creative worl available online for others to enjoy.

But truth is - you do not need me for that. You can simply offer your PayPal address in your readme or storyline text (and I am happy to post it in the levelinfo screen if you do so...

It does not require a "button" for every builder to be added to the site here, besides I would think only a small percentage of the 1000+ builders listed would even have a PayPal account that would be able to receive donations...
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dinne
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Re: Rewarding builders with a donation button in level pages

Post by dinne » 14 Sep 2020 16:07

Well I'd discard the idea of the readme files because our experience clearly says no one on the earth reads txt files inside the packs, or anyway rare players... I had this proof with both of my levels, especially the first one when I expected at least half of the players would have opened it and I wrote some important things there (that was a mistake).

So I think it should be on the level page... But I think requesting the link on purpose might sound audacious, like, if only me and 3 others know this and put the link, it might seem like "exaggerated", not modest, while if all the pages have the Donate button it seems more like a general trend. I agree many builders might not have PayPal, but probably this might be implemented by disabling it as default state, and enabling it only to users that will give their paypal account once (maybe by announcing this new possibility in the forum to give it relevance and collect associated email addresses). I think it could be put after "author profile(s)" "email(s)" fields.

If it's too problematic to implement, I think it should be found a way to make it "a trend", like, when someone submits a level you can ask once if they want to give you also their paypal for donations, from now, and, another thing is to decide a format to put this link in the storyline in a way that is equal for everyone (like if it's part of the template in some ways).

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