Welcome to the roaring twenties!

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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Marksdad » 03 Jan 2020 16:43

@Jorge,
speaking as someone who originally voted remain,I don't believe it's going to make an awful lot of difference.
This is basically because it's been watered down so much from that promised in the original referendum that Boris basically agreed to tick every box that the EU demanded to be ticked,simply to break the deadlock!
Among many things,free movement of people (provided they have something of benefit to offer)will remain unaffected.
In fact,it became watered down to such an extent that even I decided it was good enough to go with - simply to end the ridiculous and embarrassing impasse that had resulted.

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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 03 Jan 2020 20:36

Hello there.

Precisely. You voted to leave because you had enough. I know you're not into little England.

If it's that watered down by now, oh well then... I can easily understand it'd be very hard to simply turn back time. But I still fear there may be real issues with Scotland and maybe Northern Ireland.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Moonpooka » 03 Jan 2020 21:04

Jorge22 wrote:
03 Jan 2020 20:36
Hello there.

Precisely. You voted to leave because you had enough. I know you're not into little England.

If it's that watered down by now, oh well then... I can easily understand it'd be very hard to simply turn back time. But I still fear there may be real issues with Scotland and maybe Northern Ireland.
Well nothing has been watered down as there was no mention of a deal or no deal in the referendum. Remember, we are not leaving Europe we are leaving the EU so trade deals etc are still going to be on the table and some sort of relationship has to exist.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 03 Jan 2020 21:21

Ok. I'm sure you two must know better than me. Either it's been watered down to a point in which it's as if the UK weren't actually leaving or it hasn't been watered down at all and we're just forceful neighbours of sorts.

It would take a huge lot for the UK to leave Europe, that's a fact. I know there probably wasn't a direct mention - ok, I'll take your word for it - a mention of the deal in the referendum. But in the meantime a lot has happened and a deal has been cut. By the Tories themselves. Am I right?
So, what's the point? Do you per chance not want a deal? Do you think you'll be better off trading on your own (perhaps without Scotland) with the Commonwealth and the US who couldn't care less, especially with someone as unpredictable and untrustworthy as the Donald making redneck speeches or whatever suits his grandeur?

I have to say that it's not that I didn't understand the whole thing because I did and I do. But, simultaneously, it's sort of confusing. As in honestly I fail to see the point (I mean, for the population, not for the profiteers).
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Moonpooka » 03 Jan 2020 21:31

Jorge22 wrote:
03 Jan 2020 13:24
Hi. My own vision tells me the Tories (especially led by someone like Boris) only won the election because a lot of people were very tired of endless indecision. I don't actually see that as Remainers having suddenly disappeared off the face of the UK or having changed their minds. It also tells me it's not going to be good for anyone. And I also sense historical problems with Scotland - not to mention Northern Ireland. Furthermore, migration from out of Europe isn't going to stop magically because it hasn't got that much to do with Europe anyway.

All I can say is good luck.
The sad thing is, Jorge, it was the worst of two evils and Boris won not only because 17.4 million people were having their democratic vote denied but because the other parties had nothing to offer other than stopping Brexit and they based every campaign around it. It was a bad idea for any party to promise something that they simply couldn't stop. Labour leader Corbyn; who has ties to terrorist groups such as Hamas, IRA and Hezbollah was never going to reach the electorate and 3rd in line LibDems were ousted for relieving funds from the EU. They were also found to be receiving funds from a Swedish company that supplies hormone drugs for children. It stops puberty and allows parents to reassign their child's gender and Libdems were plugging all of this for children as young as 5. You know when people assume that this was all about immigration, it really wasn't. It's about morals and values too.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 03 Jan 2020 21:37

Well, I don't know. I'm sure it is (or has become) complicated.

Meanwhile, I just heard the Donald is trying to start WW 3. Swell move!
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Moonpooka » 03 Jan 2020 21:50

Jorge22 wrote:
03 Jan 2020 21:21
Ok. I'm sure you two must know better than me. Either it's been watered down to a point in which it's as if the UK weren't actually leaving or it hasn't been watered down at all and we're just forceful neighbours of sorts.

It would take a huge lot for the UK to leave Europe, that's a fact. I know there probably wasn't a direct mention - ok, I'll take your word for it - a mention of the deal in the referendum. But in the meantime a lot has happened and a deal has been cut. By the Tories themselves. Am I right?
So, what's the point? Do you per chance not want a deal? Do you think you'll be better off trading on your own (perhaps without Scotland) with the Commonwealth and the US who couldn't care less, especially with someone as unpredictable and untrustworthy as the Donald making redneck speeches or whatever suits his grandeur?

I have to say that it's not that I didn't understand the whole thing because I did and I do. But, simultaneously, it's sort of confusing. As in honestly I fail to see the point (I mean, for the population, not for the profiteers).
Personally, Jorge I don't want any deals. I don't want us to be tied to the EU as i despise it. I guess the border issue will resolve itself in one way or another, maybe just go back to how it was before we joined the EU. Scotland want a 2nd indi ref and i think they should have it, i think they have a right to have it. But if they do become independent, what happens next for them? They have to apply to join the EU and there is no guarantee that the EU will accept them. It takes big bucks to join that cult and Scotland simply don't have that sort of money. EU are already looking to pick a few of the low contributors off (like Poland) because they don't want the financial responsibilities. I think the EU's days are numbered looking at the state of every country within it, like it's been some sort of plan to wipe out cultures. Oh and yes, def want to be trading with USA and the Middle East are already in talks about boosting trading deals.. Imagine that, trading with them instead of being at war with them.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Moonpooka » 03 Jan 2020 21:55

Jorge22 wrote:
03 Jan 2020 21:37
Well, I don't know. I'm sure it is (or has become) complicated.

Meanwhile, I just heard the Donald is trying to start WW 3. Swell move!
Iran don't stand a chance and Trump knows it.. so do we all really but no one wants to say it.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 03 Jan 2020 23:24

Val... I think you're being overly pessimistic in ways and overly optimistic in others.

Well...
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Marksdad » 03 Jan 2020 23:57

If Scotland gets a second referendum,it will reopen that whole 'second Brexit referendum' argument - which is daft! Referendums (much as I don't like them) are not to be run on 'best of five attempts' (or however many it takes in order to attain a result that some people deem favourable to them) lines. You get your one shot!

As for Boris' Brexit - it's very much a compromise agreement! This is why Farage hated it so much,and formed his own Brexit Party (campaigning for the original 'hard' version of Brexit) as a deliberate counter-offensive. As he said,the Brexit favoured by Boris was simply NOT the one Farage himself had campaigned for back in 2016.
In a result indicative of the present mood of the country,Farage's Brexit Party originally fielded over 600 regional (constituency) candidates,but ended up with a grand total of zero candidates being voted into Westminster.
In fact,only 2% of the population voted for them!
The vast majority simply wanted Boris to get his compromise deal through so that we could finally move on and put the whole sorry mess behind us.

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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 04 Jan 2020 10:53

I'm glad that Farage didn't get more than 2% and managed to elect no one. It's funny I hadn't noticed but it shows most Brits were sensible.

When somebody says 'I despise the EU' does that mean they despise EU citizens? And was the UK ever that damaged by being in the EU? Will things be better from now on? Does it even make sense? I wouldn't like to feel despised...
With the early decade financial crisis we, in Portugal, suffered a whole lot more than the UK ever did. And the EU policies weren't what one would call friendly. Furthermore, we were seen as lazy, incompetent etc. All sorts of extremist, xenophobic speeches surfaced. Not nice at all. So, I guess we could feel worse about the EU. Then, Portugal became an example. Go figure...

Maybe it would be wiser to say politics and the corporations and banking system behind it are despicable. Simple but more understandable. All the rest, sorry to say, sounds like Farage speaking.
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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Marksdad » 04 Jan 2020 12:43

Jorge,let me reassure you that there's absolutely no dislike from us toward any of the citizens of the EU at all! Worry not :)
Our ire is directed toward many of the unelected (from a UK point of view) bureaucrats controlling things in Brussels.

Anyway,I now think it's best that we move on in this thread :anxious:
How's the weather with you?? :blush:

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Re: Welcome to the roaring twenties!

Post by Jorge22 » 04 Jan 2020 13:01

Lol. It rained for about two months with maybe a three day stop in between. Then we had a sunny (or at least sunnier) Christmas. It did rain yesterday but the sun is back. :D
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