Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

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Jorge22
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Jorge22 » 19 Nov 2019 01:48

DJ Full wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:33
"in face of this"? I just said the editor isn't my problem...
'This' isn't directed at you, DJ. Your post just happened to come before mine.
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Sabatu » 19 Nov 2019 01:51

For me, the theme can't be better than this ( Well Egypt would be better :) )
I can't wait to see wads, textures and everything. But I am still not sure If I will join.. We'll see :) I still have a lot of time to register

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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Tolle87 » 19 Nov 2019 02:18

Jorge22 wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:23
Ok. In face of this, maybe only the original LE should be allowed. That would not only put the builders' expertise and creativity to test as it would also avoid this kind of unwarranted technical battlefield. If it avoided BtB along the way, oh well...
That would be true and that would be in the spirit of BtB if the difference between editors was just in modern features. Original LE doesn't put expertise and creativity to the test any more than the new one does. The only thing it puts to the test is builder's tolerance to lag, crashes and compatibility issues.


Lets put it like this, for all the people who are not familiar with building process:

This isn't "ferrari vs old timer" (in which case your point of view would be 100% correct). This is more like "regular car vs that same car with engine that randomly turns off every 10 minutes".
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Nina Croft » 19 Nov 2019 03:17

Wow, a winter level! Please count me in! I promise to work hard on the level and to make my debut with BtB 2020 :)
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Proudly participating in BtB2020 contest & testing Dark City 2 (stay tuned)
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by DJ Full » 19 Nov 2019 04:15

Jorge22 wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:48
DJ Full wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:33
"in face of this"? I just said the editor isn't my problem...
'This' isn't directed at you, DJ. Your post just happened to come before mine.
Uff... so one between must have been deleted...
people, stop doing that, it ruins the continuum :P
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by A_De » 19 Nov 2019 07:11

This is the great news!
I'd like to know which features of TRNG are allowed and which are not.
And yes, it is a pity that Tomb Editor is not included for now. It would be a great place to switch from old TRLE + TRNG to something new... And I believe once TombEditor is allowed, many builders will be able to make their levels more quickly :)
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Jorge22 » 19 Nov 2019 10:07

Hmm... of course I know nothing of the building process. :)
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Jay » 19 Nov 2019 11:11

I too am completely and utterly ignorant about the building aspect so I shall simply say how lovely it would be to have some Tibet levels to enjoy, no matter how they're built. Yes, I am just a spoilt rotten player. :D
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Ceamonks890 » 19 Nov 2019 12:17

If I could provide my two cents as a non-builder for a moment, I agree with others that limiting potential contestants to TRNG is an incredibly short-sighted and quite frankly dumb restriction. Are you wanting new and current people to apply for next year's BtB or not? I attempted to get into building levels many years ago myself but due to the frankly archaic nature of NGLE, I gave up on attempting to bring my ideas to life and became a critic/voice actor instead as a means of contribution to the TRLE community.

So if I had problems trying to get familiar with it back then, I can only imagine how tortuous this prospect will be for folks who have become well-familiar with Tomb Editor at this point. I genuinely hope you reconsider and drop TRNG altogether if you want Back to Basics to continue existing in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Jorge22 » 19 Nov 2019 12:53

DJ Full wrote:
19 Nov 2019 04:15
Jorge22 wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:48
DJ Full wrote:
19 Nov 2019 01:33
"in face of this"? I just said the editor isn't my problem...
'This' isn't directed at you, DJ. Your post just happened to come before mine.
Uff... so one between must have been deleted...
people, stop doing that, it ruins the continuum :P
I finally think I get it (sorry, I have an annoying cold that renders me a bit slow). :)

No, what I meant by 'this' was the entire battlefield between all the intervening factions. You weren't even critic. But, as I said, I don't build. Not even slightly. And you do know I'm a fan, right? :)
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Tombraider95 » 19 Nov 2019 13:11

Ceamonks890 wrote:
19 Nov 2019 12:17
I genuinely hope you reconsider and drop TRNG altogether if you want Back to Basics to continue existing in the foreseeable future.
Don't you mean drop ngle.exe? Keep TRNG. Allow the choice of ngle.exe or Tomb Editor.
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by DJ Full » 19 Nov 2019 14:31

so, once again
- English Script.bat = old scripter causes issues in win7 and 10
- TRNG = new scripter anti-lags the game but wasn't used till this edition because of too many features
- winroomedit = initial old editor only 100% physically and mentally healthy people can build in this
- old NGLE = next generation editor. usually for BtB. still crap interface, claimed to be a bit more stable
- new NGLE = more timesaving features but probably less stable therefore usually not used for BtB
- Tomb Editor = latest editor. compatible with all scripters, faster, comfier and with font readable to anybody

so in short

you need identical skills in TombEditor BUT it doesn't steal your life...
it's same as with suzanne who almost decided to quit playing because of age
same as with phil who couldn't read font in levels because text was too small
same thing here but builders quit because they don't want to waste time

phil and suzanne opened my eyes, I respected them and anybody else between age 5 and 100
I added bigger font, better lights, less timers, all I could do to become suitable for everybody
you can play my last map with 1 hand if you don't have 2. hell, you can even play it if you are deaf

why won't this competition do the same for the builders

I don't care if we get 5 levels or 50, it's just pain to see wasted time
I'm 31, I notice how fast my time flies, and the team is older yet doesn't
woof

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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Ceamonks890 » 19 Nov 2019 23:38

Tombraider95 wrote:
19 Nov 2019 13:11
Don't you mean drop ngle.exe? Keep TRNG. Allow the choice of ngle.exe or Tomb Editor.
Of course I do (Thought they were the same program in my head, considering the similar titles :hammer: ). But if it means builders have more choice for what to use in order to bring their levels to life, I don't really care one way or the other which NG-titled TRLE program gets the axe.

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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by Ryan » 19 Nov 2019 23:41

Jay wrote:
19 Nov 2019 11:11
I too am completely and utterly ignorant about the building aspect so I shall simply say how lovely it would be to have some Tibet levels to enjoy, no matter how they're built. Yes, I am just a spoilt rotten player. :D
Yes, yes and yes again. :D
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Re: Back To Basics 2020 - Tibet - Builder Registration

Post by JesseG » 20 Nov 2019 00:13

Phil wrote:
18 Nov 2019 20:52
TombExplorer wrote:
18 Nov 2019 20:36
Those restrictions have no reason to exist.
Maybe, maybe not. As an outsider to this discussion, I would much rather defer to whatever Jesus C.Croft may have to say. One thing I don't need to "speak the language" to realize: Two accomplished builders (and maybe more that we don't know about) have already bowed out, so if the present rules are to stand, there should be strong justification for this position.
Agreed. I believe in the past the idea was that a TOM file is built independently of the WAD, so submission of TOM files guarantees that the objects have not been altered by the participating builders. If this is going to be the justification again, then I feel that it is time to revisit the philosophy of Back to Basics. Because if its existence is contingent on a clear delineation between level files and object files, then this contest may not be sustainable in the future.

I am unfamiliar with Tomb Editor (I'll admit this thread was how I learned of its existence), so I have no idea if there could be some method of compromise, such as overwriting the objects in each submitted level with the official ones in the package, or perhaps having project files submitted instead of compiled levels (again, assuming that is indeed the root issue).

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