OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

off topic

Moderator: Marksdad

User avatar
TimJ
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2000
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 19:33
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by TimJ » 15 Oct 2015 14:10

It seems that it's a bit higher than old trle default one.

I have another question regarding enemies death count. Is there a bug in the engine ? The previous level I played counted at least 4 horsemen, 2 lions and some crows and it only counted 5 kills. :anxious:
Image :balloon:

User avatar
EssGee
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5111
Joined: 01 Feb 2003 13:56
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by EssGee » 15 Oct 2015 22:10

The longer draw distance can certainly be looked into for future btb's. As Simen indicated there are reasons for the chosen distance which is indeed a compromise between visual distance and level durability i.e. no lagging or crashing for highly detailed levels. It was determined by a heavy 'object stress test' . Of course it would be lovely if we are not challenged by the various restrictions of the editor, but please keep in mind that there are some hurdles to overcome that may look from the outside to be an easy fix that can be difficult when you are designing a 'one size fits all' exe for up to 60 levels. Then throw in the huge wads and texture sets that are used for btb. I can pretty much assure you it is not as simple as it may look to an outsider. :wink:
Image
Currently lost in Tibet :cool3:

User avatar
Mazeh
Member
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 06 Sep 2011 15:05
Location: Brazil

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Mazeh » 16 Oct 2015 00:01

I loved the trailer: gorjeous and funny. :2thumbsup: And I'd like to congratulate the authors of the presentation flyby of the series: that movie sequence that we can see if we open the main page but don't click "new" or "load" or "exit". It's fabulous!

User avatar
Mytly
Keen Eye of the Week
Keen Eye of the Week
Posts: 49312
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 23:48
Location: India

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Mytly » 16 Oct 2015 12:21

I don't know what causes the lagging - I was just going by snork's post on the previous page:
snork wrote:I'd suggest distance "very far" or at least "far". From my experience on my very weak previous computer, this is not the main culprit for potential lagging - if that was a reason to keep drawing distance so low.
If draw distance does indeed cause lagging, then of course it's not an easy problem to solve. What about distance fog? I don't know about this year's BtB, but in the previous BtBs that I have participated in (2011 & 2014), distance fog was disabled. Surely enabling distance fog would allow builders to build large areas without draw distance issues? Or does that come with its own problems (and that's why it's disabled)?

User avatar
TimJ
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2000
Joined: 25 Jan 2005 19:33
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by TimJ » 16 Oct 2015 13:36

Distance fog isn't compatible with fog bulbs, that's why most authors prefer to disable it. In my opinion, an exterior level should have distance fog and an interior level fog bulb. Moreover distance fog can give ugly results with a too detailed horizon, as you will see the level fade into the fog colour and then see the horizon in the distance with a net cut between the two. TRNG could allow for some tricks to minimize the issue but it will never be perfect.
Image :balloon:

User avatar
Mytly
Keen Eye of the Week
Keen Eye of the Week
Posts: 49312
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 23:48
Location: India

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Mytly » 16 Oct 2015 14:07

Tim, I meant that distance fog is disabled in the TREP settings of the BtB exes. IMO, it shouldn't be, so that builders have an option of using either fog bulbs or distance fog, based on whichever works best in their level. I think that distance fog would work reasonably well with the kind of horizon provided in the BtB 2014 package, and perhaps even the one in the current BtB (though it's hard to say without seeing the actual horizon object).

User avatar
snork
Chatterbox
Chatterbox
Posts: 4192
Joined: 02 Feb 2006 11:10
Location: northern Germany, baltic coast line

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by snork » 16 Oct 2015 14:47

EssGee wrote:I can pretty much assure you it is not as simple as it may look to an outsider. :wink:
No worries, I think overall trust in you BtB-team is abundant.
(well, I disagree with the faster shimmy, faster pull-up and bobblehead, but I see this as a personal preference of mine. Like I prefer this style of lighting over that style of lighting, and such.) :D
Bojrkraider wrote:If I remember, the drawing distance was chosen for a reason. Because of some highly detailed objects, on some computers lagging appeared. We tested different distances...


Shame on me. :blush:
I mean it is not long ago that I was stuck on that ooold computer, unable to play some levels. And already I start to forget taking this into consideration.

for what it's worth - from my player perspective, lagging often came from either MANY objects used, and/or from specific objects with either HIGH number of polygons, or maybe HUGE textures applied, or maybe even the "shine" had to do with it.
I would sometimes find the "culprit-object", but not know what feature of that object caused the lagging.
Drawing-Distance effect on lagging then was kind of a multiplier to the lagging already there - more in the scope of times-1.little than times-2x or higher.

For example, Clara gave me a tomb4.exe with reduced distances for "I know what you did ...", and that reduced the partly extreme lagging just a little bit - but in that case this "little bit less lagging" was sufficient, so I could actually play the game. :2thumbsup:
----------------------

Question : I wonder if further discussion of this - if needed - would not better be had in a different topic ? I felt that originally this topic was more for expressing joy over "Yay! BtB!" :yay: and feel already :? for veering it away so much.

Maybe with even cutting the posts from here into some new topic ? :?
Last edited by snork on 16 Oct 2015 14:51, edited 2 times in total.
Thou shall not mess with Lara's resting animation. NEVER. EVER!

User avatar
DJ Full
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 6874
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 04:02

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by DJ Full » 16 Oct 2015 14:47

Distance fog doesn't substitute draw distance. It only masks the actual draw distance so the clipping (polygon disappearance) isn't so eye hurting. But if the fog is set to 10 squares and draw distance to 20, the engine will count 20. It's also very sensitive to rain and snow (latter not a problem here). I don't know if other sprites like steam or fire affect it, but sometimes when you disable rain you get 5 more fps. Animatings seem to cause less lagging than statics. Also it seems better to split textures into small polygons instead of using large tiles on few polygons (notice how Core's door objects are made of many little units).

So - we may have made the "tests" but their results are only applicable to the most generic styles of building. Some builders play with geometry while using only crucial objects. Another builder plants 5000 trees in a boxy room :)
Maybe with even cutting the posts from here into some new topic ? :?
I'm not a mod but the continuity is pretty fine.
Last edited by DJ Full on 16 Oct 2015 14:50, edited 1 time in total.
woof

User avatar
Fluen
Member
Member
Posts: 941
Joined: 01 Mar 2006 18:37
Location: Elsinore, Denmark

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Fluen » 16 Oct 2015 14:50

Mazeh wrote:And I'd like to congratulate the authors of the presentation flyby of the series: that movie sequence that we can see if we open the main page but don't click "new" or "load" or "exit". It's fabulous!
Thank you. :iluvu: It's nice to know, that my "level" is also appreciated. I did my best to show a great variety of objects and textures, create beliveable environments inspired by the DJ Full's impressive title theme and time the flybys with the changes in the music.
Mytly wrote:I think that distance fog would work reasonably well with the kind of horizon provided in the BtB 2014 package, and perhaps even the one in the current BtB (though it's hard to say without seeing the actual horizon object).
The prime condition for a good transition between distance fog and a horizon is, that the horizon is monocromatic at eye level. Only one of the supplied horizons (this year we gave the builders 8 different horizons to choose from as a new feature) met that condition.

Phil
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5851
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 23:57
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Phil » 20 Oct 2015 01:02

Just as a matter of curiosity, nine days into the competition the only BtB level not honored with a stuck thread is The Horn of Amalthea. Is it because that level is inordinately easy, or is it because no one has started on it yet?

User avatar
Treeble
Chatterbox
Chatterbox
Posts: 3148
Joined: 08 Sep 2001 05:36
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by Treeble » 20 Oct 2015 01:07

The few reviews already in seem to suggest it to be the former. I'm playing in the numerical order so it's still a few levels away from me.

User avatar
snork
Chatterbox
Chatterbox
Posts: 4192
Joined: 02 Feb 2006 11:10
Location: northern Germany, baltic coast line

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by snork » 20 Oct 2015 15:01

PDLambeth wrote:Just as a matter of curiosity, nine days into the competition the only BtB level not honored with a stuck thread is The Horn of Amalthea. Is it because that level is inordinately easy, or is it because no one has started on it yet?
I took the topics in the stuck forum as an indicator what game to play next, decided to go with a game that had just a few posts, not two pages worth of posts. And that turned out as I hoped for. :D

-------------------

Something different

When taking screenshots it somehow has problems with capturing water surfaces. :?
More so when playing in 1920x1080 on the nvidia graphics than 1366x768 on the intel graphics, but also the latter sometimes captures water only here and there but not there.
The game over here so far runs in 16bit colourdepth, volFX=ON, bump=ON.
(in 32bit I never got the screenshot capture to produce meaningful results at all).

Is there anything I can do about it ?
Thou shall not mess with Lara's resting animation. NEVER. EVER!

User avatar
DJ Full
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 6874
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 04:02

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by DJ Full » 20 Oct 2015 15:09

snork wrote:When taking screenshots it somehow has problems... Is there anything I can do about it?
Fraps.
woof

User avatar
snork
Chatterbox
Chatterbox
Posts: 4192
Joined: 02 Feb 2006 11:10
Location: northern Germany, baltic coast line

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by snork » 20 Oct 2015 19:17

That's a bit overkill, for me, I think. :?

Does the free version add a logo also to single screenshots or only to videos ?
Thou shall not mess with Lara's resting animation. NEVER. EVER!

User avatar
DJ Full
Master Chatter
Master Chatter
Posts: 6874
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 04:02

Re: OUT NOW - Back to Basics 2015 - Greece

Post by DJ Full » 20 Oct 2015 19:34

Just to videos iirc.
woof

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tombraider95 and 17 guests