BtB2015 discussion thread

[Dino]

I think if each time we use TREP it's for a easiest installation for each builders. Just unzip and build.
For TRNG is more difficult to install and news builders not maybe understand all thinks about the installation of TRNG and then the various triggers or effects we can use.

Well we could still use only old school triggers. But you are right that installation is harder than just unzipping.

Huh? All the BtBs since 2010 have used the widescreen patch. You do realize that TREP widescreen works a different way than TRNG? You have to tick the widescreen option in the settings when playing the level. Also, TREP widescreen is actually true widescreen, i.e. it shows more of the screen at the sides. The TRNG widescreen just chops off the top and bottom parts of the screen.

That said, I do agree that it's high time BtB starts using TRNG.

Ohh lol I didn't know that. I have always played BtB levels with fat Lara

[DJ Full]

For TRNG is more difficult to install and

...and this is why Paolone developed wonderful MK4 Full Installer. Follow instructions and You're done

news builders not maybe understand the various triggers or effects we can use.

And this is why the Team always provides a readme.

TREP widescreen is actually true widescreen, i.e. it shows more of the screen at the sides. The TRNG widescreen just chops off the top and bottom parts of the screen.

That's why I said moving chase camera a bit away would be necessary to match the TREP effect.

[xinfection1080]

For TRNG is more difficult to install and

...and this is why Paolone developed wonderful MK4 Full Installer. Follow instructions and You're done

news builders not maybe understand the various triggers or effects we can use.

And this is why the Team always provides a readme.

TREP widescreen is actually true widescreen, i.e. it shows more of the screen at the sides. The TRNG widescreen just chops off the top and bottom parts of the screen.

That's why I said moving chase camera a bit away would be necessary to match the TREP effect.

I think it should just stay with TREP, for it is easier, and you won't have to do that extra stuff; and worry about those script errors, and un-explained crashes with TRNG. Plus, BTB always been using TREP, why change it? If you want to use TRNG, best to start from scratch.

[DJ Full]

I think it should just stay with TREP, for 1) it is easier, and 2) you won't have to do that extra stuff; and 3) worry about those script errors, and 4) un-explained crashes with TRNG.

1) Hardly. Levelbuilding goes the same way.
2) You wouldn't be forced to use NG, only allowed to do it. Same as You don't have to use every single texture or every single wad object (though I always try to do so ).
3) It's the old scripter which is more likely to fail on new systems. And just like in point 2), You don't have to script a lot. BTW only few commands would be allowed and they are mostly similar to each other.
4) TRNG is the new engine that makes features work, but the editor is exactly the same NGLE so the crash frequency is almost identical

Plus, 5) BTB always been using TREP, why change it? 6) If you want to use TRNG, best to start from scratch.

5) I told everything 2 posts ago
6) Not sure if I get it. Isn't a completely new wad starting from scratch?

[uzi master]

Most of the features BTB usually uses TREP for seem to be a bit more "solid," in TREP, like widescreen working the way it's supposed to. Honestly most special features I see people use TRNG for seem to stick out like a sore thumb, granted it's usually conspicuous particle effects and background images but still :p

Then again, BTB already started using new moves, which is one of the other big uses, (and sometimes used conspicuously) for TRNG.

[xinfection1080]

Most of the features BTB usually uses TREP for seem to be a bit more "solid," in TREP, like widescreen working the way it's supposed to. Honestly most special features I see people use TRNG for seem to stick out like a sore thumb, granted it's usually conspicuous particle effects and background images but still :p

Then again, BTB already started using new moves, which is one of the other big uses, (and sometimes used conspicuously) for TRNG.

Exactly ^^^ Not saying using TRNG is bad (of course not!) , but some people tend to overstock their levels showing off mostly them special features as uzi master stated. That's why I feel that (with TREP) builders are more... focused down to the actual designing of the level itself, rather than the scripting special features and others. But again, don't get me wrong TRNG difinitely is the best. I mean, look at these custom levels now (even in BTB) none them would be no where without TRNG. Doesn't BTB use a version of TRNG anyway? One that's compatible with TREP?

But you know what, I DO most certainly indeed love the way how TRNG's flipeffect is much better than TREP, I mean, I may be doing this wrong, but, in order to use flipeffects using TREP "flipeffect editor", you have to use the original old RoomEdit. Is that correct? ----(Sorry of this is off-topic)

[DJ Full]

^ People, are You listening at all? TRNG would be mainly used for bug fixing, compatibility and stability, with only several new triggers allowed, if at all. So there is no fear this build will be overwhelmed with special effects like spinning pickups or rotating flames (though I would reserve some FX for occasional presence of Greek divine powers). I don't think we would go for background images, since they don't work for people using irregular screen and we want to avoid exclusions like that.

[Nerkan]

In my opinion it would be better to use TRNG. As other say without the special effects from TRNG. Only with FE and script commend that are allowed from the package builder. So I think the package builder can use objects with more meshes and details.

[xinfection1080]

TREP is tradition, NGLE fixes its bugs. Does that sum it all up?

[DJ Full]

Almost. NGLE is the editor to build both a level later affected with TREP or TRNG patches. So the new engine fixes most of the game bugs, while building the map goes EXACTLY the same way - however the newest version of the editor can speed it up, my top three features being:

- auto-disabling the "Hide Objects" button before wad output
- "substitute textures" button that replaces all textures of one ID with textures of another ID
- "Play" button instead of "Exit and play".

All of these save hours of frustration and unnecessary clicking, while all the limits remain the same, and so does the creativity challenge we know from previous BtBs.

[Mr XY]

You can also use the trng level editor (with the play button) and use trep. That's what I'm doing at the moment because I'm too lazy to learn the scripting.

Not that I would mind switching for the next btb.

I have no idea about trng but how would you make sure that this or that trigger isn't used? Is that even possible without going through the whole level?

[DJ Full]

1) how would you make sure that this or that trigger isn't used?
2) Is that even possible without going through the whole level?

1) Well it's rather plainly visible when Lara jumps 200 ft into the air, flipmaps alternate in odd way (so not via rollingball), two audio tracks play in the same moment or a great mist ball halo surrounds a pickup rotating over a pedestal. Any cheater would be detectable at once
2) As betatesters, we will anyway

[Dino]

You can also use the trng level editor (with the play button) and use trep. That's what I'm doing at the moment because I'm too lazy to learn the scripting.

Actually BtB has used trep + ngle for years now.

I have no idea about trng but how would you make sure that this or that trigger isn't used? Is that even possible without going through the whole level?

In theory builders would be able to use new triggers and scripts but as DJ Full said it will be noticed. As I showed a few post ago we could mark unwanted triggers like this so builders wound be confused which triggers they are allowed to use.


However one think what would be interesting is really going to Back to Basics like BtB 2009. No TREP, TRNG or NGLE (or maybe we could still use NGLE cause it is more sable but with 64x64 textures). Maybe now isn't time to do so but I really hope that one year we will see BtB like this again.

[DJ Full]

Actually BtB has used trep + trng for years now.

TREP + NGLE. The difference should get sticky on the top forum banner. People are still confused

I thought about something more TRNG (not NGLE) could allow. It can vanish an object on keyboard condition - e.g. "if You press F12, the grass and flowers disappear". This way people playing on slower computers could switch to a lighter variant and reduce lagging in their case.

[Dino]

Actually BtB has used trep + trng for years now.

TREP + NGLE. The difference should get sticky on the top forum banner. People are still confused

I meant NGLE. Yes many people (like me) are confused sometimes which is which.