Updated levels

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Dutchy
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Updated levels

Post by Dutchy » 14 Jan 2020 16:25

Anyone has a suggestion how we can urge new builders to have their levels Beta tested before release ?? :idea:

Really, you young folks...you CAN NOT test your own level other than the first Alpha test!!!!!
The Beta test (after you think the level is ready) should be done by experienced testers/players that haven't seen the level before..

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Mehrbod » 14 Jan 2020 16:44

Dutchy wrote:
14 Jan 2020 16:25
Anyone has a suggestion how we can urge new builders to have their levels Beta tested before release ?? :idea:

Really, you young folks...you CAN NOT test your own level other than the first Alpha test!!!!!
The Beta test (after you think the level is ready) should be done by experienced testers/players that haven't seen the level before..
Hi Dutchy! Well, I guess I'm one of them...
Believe me, I consulted with so many people of the community. Unfortunately, since my project was too long, no one accepted my request for beta testing. Only 4 people (which 3 of them really did a nice job, Teone recently helped me a lot with the update, Wolf7 & Topixtor) decided to give my project a go, but only Wolf7 managed to complete the whole project before release. Anyway, I'm very sorry if my game put a stone in your way and I hope I can be more helpful in the next projects.

Thanks for your post. :D
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Re: Updated levels

Post by Phil » 14 Jan 2020 18:42

Mehrbod, I don't believe Dutchy had you in mind when he prepared his post.

He and I share a concern about the recent spate of updates (frequently unannounced updates in which gameplay is significantly changed, causing havoc for those who have taken the time and effort to prepare written and video walks for the original version) to levels that were rushed to release without being properly tested. And I don't mean to include the recent CaC competition, as there were legitimate time pressures involved with that situation.

The situation with Don't Obey the Virus, for example, should never have been allowed to unfold the way it did. After the third attempt it appears that the builder may have provided a level that can be played to conclusion, although I'll reserve judgment on that until I've done it myself.

There are several possible remedies. One that comes to mind is that Michael simply decline to host a level submitted by anyone unless the builder provides, along with the files to be downloaded, the names of those who were involved in beta testing the level. I realize that, from what was said in an earlier post, strict application of this standard would have affected Mehrbod's massive project, but surely allowance can be made for reasonable exceptions on a case by case basis. In any event, the situation has become intolerable of late and needs to be addressed.
Last edited by Phil on 15 Jan 2020 17:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Mehrbod » 14 Jan 2020 19:42

Phil wrote:
14 Jan 2020 18:42
Mehrbod, I don't believe Dutchy had you in mind when he prepared his post.

He and I share a concern about the recent spate of updates (frequently unannounced updates in which gameplay is significantly changed, causing havoc for those who have taken the time and effort to prepare written and video walks for the original version) to levels that were rushed to release without being properly tested. And I don't mean to include the recent CaC competition, as there were legitimate time pressures involved with that situation.

The situation with Don't Obey the Virus, for example, should never have been allowed to unfold the way it did. After the third attempt it appears that the builder may have provided a level that can played to conclusion, although I'll reserve judgment on that until I've done it myself.

There are several possible remedies. One that comes to mind is that Michael simply decline to host a level submitted by anyone unless the builder provides, along with the files to be downloaded, the names of those who were involved in beta testing the level. I realize that, from what was said in an earlier post, strict application of this standard would have affected Mehrbod's massive project, but surely allowance can be made for reasonable exceptions on a case by case basis. In any event, the situation has become intolerable of late and needs to be addressed.
Hi Phil! Thanks a lot for your response. :2thumbsup:

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I can completely understand how much effort is being put by our kind walkthrough writers to guide the players out there to the very most... In fact, I agree with all of the points mentioned by you. :)

Have a very nice day. :)
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Re: Updated levels

Post by Dutchy » 15 Jan 2020 10:16

Good suggestion Phil

@ Mehrbod, it's not about the walkthroughs for me, it is about the fact that starting builders will get low scores in their reviews based on problems in a level and that way lose interest in building another and that would be a pity

Still have to start with yours someday, but when I see a player like Teone even asking for savegames.... :-o
Last edited by Dutchy on 15 Jan 2020 10:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Mehrbod » 15 Jan 2020 10:17

Dutchy wrote:
15 Jan 2020 10:16
Good suggestion Phil

@ Mehrbod, it's not about the walkthroughs for me, it is about the fact that starting builders will get low scores in their reviews based on problems in a level and that way lose interest in building another and that would be a pity

Still have to start with yours someday
Thanks a lot. If you needed a hand, just let me know. :)
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Re: Updated levels

Post by Teone » 15 Jan 2020 18:17

Dutchy wrote:
15 Jan 2020 10:16
but when I see a player like Teone even asking for savegames.... :-o
So now I'm a PRO player???? :D Not really...
You don't imagine how many times I consult YOURS walkthroughs to progress. :lol:

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Re: Updated levels

Post by billie2001 » 15 Jan 2020 20:25

What I don't understand is why there is not always a note on the level's page that it has been updated and when.
Why should the builder specifically ask for this, otherwise no mention at all?

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Dutchy » 15 Jan 2020 21:19

Seems there is...
Great Pyramid by abbath81

story
Note: Package updated on Jan 9 and again on Jan 14, 2020 - check readme for updated fixes.

Once again Lara Croft travels to Egypt in search for the Great Pyramid.....

Are you sure you specifically have to ask for that?

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Ryan » 15 Jan 2020 21:31

Talking of The Great Pyramid, has anyone noticed that the latest update seems to have the level names down as the original Last Revelation ones, rather than "Road to the Great Pyramid" and "Inside the Great Pyramid"? :?
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Re: Updated levels

Post by Dutchy » 15 Jan 2020 22:25

Yep, I saw that and deleting the extra secret sounds ( for the ones that weren't secrets) also didn't work well. I feel another update coming...
But the monkey save bug is gone, had no problems after this update.

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Treeble » 15 Jan 2020 23:07

I don't think the builder asks for the update notice on the levelinfo page, I think Michael adds it whenever he updates a file simply so reviews submitted prior to the level update don't seem random. A good example that comes to mind is Florianopolis, for which plenty of reviews were submitted before the update (which took 6 years rather than a couple of days, but still).
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Re: Updated levels

Post by Phil » 15 Jan 2020 23:51

billie2001 wrote:
15 Jan 2020 20:25
What I don't understand is why there is not always a note on the level's page that it has been updated and when.
That's been my complaint since Day One. No update should be accepted without due notice of the fact appearing on the level info page, whether the builder requests it or not.

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Re: Updated levels

Post by Dutchy » 16 Jan 2020 06:58

Remains the fact that if we don't check all those level info's once in a while, we'll never know...and that issue will be harder to fix...
So, back to the start...
FOR THE NEWLY STARTING LEVEL BUILDERS...
1-BETA TEST YOUR LEVELS PROPERLY BEFORE SUBMITTING THEM
2-DON'T HAVE THE ILLUSION YOU CAN BETA TEST YOUR LEVEL YOURSELF, NOT POSSIBLE!!!!

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Re: Updated levels

Post by billie2001 » 16 Jan 2020 17:02

Treeble wrote:
15 Jan 2020 23:07
I don't think the builder asks for the update notice on the levelinfo page, I think Michael adds it whenever he updates a file simply so reviews submitted prior to the level update don't seem random. A good example that comes to mind is Florianopolis, for which plenty of reviews were submitted before the update (which took 6 years rather than a couple of days, but still).
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31551#p777870

Reading this, i got the impression that the builder must specify if he/she wants the info page to be updated.
And most builders don't even know that or they are afraid that somebody will start shouting about the level not being beta-tested properly :-P
But even with important fixes, I noticed that sometimes the level info is not updated.

As for beta-testing, anybody can say it was beta-tested by a couple of names nobody knows. Do they have to be members of this community? Builders even?
Does even the builder have to upload it here himself or do we take it from wherever we found it? No idea about that.

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