Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

pending walkthroughs/walkthrough small talk

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Gerty
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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Gerty » 15 Mar 2017 17:19

First of all it should be fun and not a chore then there are people who don’t know how to use Fex-inspect (me) as well as some of the newest levels you cannot use Fex-inspect (Dutchy found that out).
Second, what is wrong with taking it up with the writer? Some for sure will respond.
Of course you can re-write a walkthrough but personally I rather have you taken it up with me before you would do so with one of mine. :)
Oops, I did it again... Image

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by DJ Full » 15 Mar 2017 19:43

Gerty wrote:
15 Mar 2017 17:19
there are people who don’t know how to use Fex-inspect (me) as well as some of the newest levels you cannot use Fex-inspect
It's really simple, you load the level, click on "find secret found" - and it displays all secret triggers. Very useful for classic levels and missing authors, two conditions very often occuring together.
Second, what is wrong with taking it up with the writer? Some for sure will respond. Of course you can re-write a walkthrough but personally I rather have you taken it up with me before you would do so with one of mine. :)
By "rewrite" I meant insert a fix but leave the surroundings intact so the author's style is preserved and you don't even see my hand - like in painting conservation, it gets fixed but stays original. If I contact the writer every time it happens, it will take hours instead of seconds, a fix I could apply myself may get lost in the process, and the author will be another person troubled except Phil or Michael I already bother with reuploading... even that I wouldn't do if all walkthrus were as professional as yours, done once but done good, an example for everyone to follow.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Dutchy » 15 Mar 2017 20:12

"FYI, currently there are so many levels recorded it very often suffices to watch them and see what's wrong"
I'd rather play it again than watch some of those video's to find out, only some of them are done properly

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by TombTitan » 16 Mar 2017 04:14

DJ Full:
You stated that it is easy for you to use Fex-inspect (whatever that is) to find secrets in a level, especially classic levels. If that is true, would you please find the elusive missing secret in "The Lost Artifact of Heroic Manliness" by Mulf from 2001. Dutchy never found it in his walkthrough, and I have been unable to find it in three replays of the game over the last 15 years. If all of the secrets stated by Mulf in the readme do indeed exist (and I doubt it), please find them and post the results in this thread. Thank you and good luck.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Dutchy » 16 Mar 2017 08:31

No time at the moment, but I would have to replay to be sure. Could it be this crawlspace?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3w533wl7x26kz ... t.jpg?dl=0

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Phil » 16 Mar 2017 16:03

Here's my two cents, for whatever it's worth. Back in the early days, walkthrough writers did not feel compelled to document every last pickup and every single secret. In fact, one writer had the stated policy of merely taking the player successfully through the level, leaving it to the player to find the pickups and secrets. I realize that the practice today is different, but my philosophy was and is to post my own walkthroughs whenever I've finished playing and writing, documenting whatever I was able to find on my own and with the help of others. If there are things that were missed, and if someone later points out what they are and where they're located, I'm happy to amend my walks to add this information. On a related note, the only one who can alter walks posted at trle.net is Michael. Therefore, any complete rewrites -- and this is certainly called for in some cases -- should be sent to him for review and replacement, after first getting permission from the original writer (assuming the writer is still a member here and can be contacted via PM). I agree with DJ that fixes to add missing information does not warrant writer approval.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Dutchy » 16 Mar 2017 16:46

you should at least make an attempt to contact the writer about it.
When I revise a walk of G&D productions, I give the html file the Trle number Michael stored the file under, so Michael only has to upload it. He has enough work as it is

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Phil » 16 Mar 2017 17:38

I guess I should have said that minor fixes to add missing information do not require my approval where my own walks are involved.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by DJ Full » 16 Mar 2017 19:24

Same for me: if you see I wrote something mistaken or incomplete just fix that and never mind what I think.

Dutchy wrote:
15 Mar 2017 20:12
I'd rather play it again than watch some of those video's to find out, only some of them are done properly
Unfortunately, quality difference exists between video walkthrus just like between the written ones :( You just need to remember who does them professionally. For instance any video by badassgamez, izzynoodles or Lara Croft MP is top-notch, watching their walkthrus is like reading yours, hehe :)

TombTitan wrote:
16 Mar 2017 04:14
would you please find the elusive missing secret in "The Lost Artifact of Heroic Manliness" by Mulf from 2001. If all of the secrets stated by Mulf in the readme do indeed exist (and I doubt it), please find them and post the results in this thread.
Got it! The walkthru has 6, the tool shows 7, so that missing one must exist. But before I track it down I will play the game myself, I wanted to do it for long and I don't want spoilers :D

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by TombTitan » 16 Mar 2017 21:23

DJ Full,
Thank you for stating you will try playing the game. I hope you can find the elusive seventh secret that Mulf added after the original release of the game (which is why none of the reviewers refer to it). If it exists, it may only be available for a brief moment if I read Mulf's readme correctly.

Dutchy,
I couldn't recognize the place in your picture when I loaded my savegames this morning. I used dozy at every location in the game, but nothing seems to fit. Do you know where in the game that picture occurs?

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by DJ Full » 18 Mar 2017 18:05

An example of rare case I consider a literal rewriting. Fragments of the Core, 5th level, 1st secret:
- the walkthru says climb down, shoot the ball, climb up, take the secret, climb down
- the real way is shoot the ball, take the secret, climb down.
That's at least one minute faster in stats, extremely important for trophy thread lunatics, so in this case I will indeed try to make contact with Relic Hunter. It wasn't so necessary after the first correction I had for this game, 4th level, 1st secret, finding an alternate but not surely legit way out without any health loss.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by Tartan » 19 Mar 2017 13:34

I take advantage of this topic.
"The Lost Valley by JEYEM"
This level has five secrets. But 3rd secret is missing in walkthrough.
You can see the 3rd secret with this video (26:18~)
https://youtu.be/7rJF6LFg_3o?t=25m50s

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by DJ Full » 19 Mar 2017 17:37

TombTitan wrote:
16 Mar 2017 21:23
I hope you can find the elusive seventh secret that Mulf added after the original release of the game (which is why none of the reviewers refer to it).
I found the elusive seventh secret that Mulf added after the original release of the game, and it's good none of the reviewers refer to it because the game would be rated lower - it's one of these things so unfair you actually see but don't believe it's supposed to happen... Possibly that's why you missed it, and I also did - only after 15 minutes I succumbed to my doubt, restarted the game and it was indeed there, in the very beginning... I didn't even need Fexinspect, insane faith is enough. If you need more hints just tell 8)

Tartan wrote:
19 Mar 2017 13:34
"The Lost Valley by JEYEM". 3rd secret is missing in walkthrough. You can see the 3rd secret with this video
Here's another video walkthrough author whom I meant as invaluable and who helps a lot :)

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by TombTitan » 19 Mar 2017 23:06

Ok, I found the remaining secret. In fact, I suspect it was actually the original first secret that is not in the walkthrough. Based on Mulf's readme file, I think the actual last (seventh) secret that Mulf added in version 1.3 is the fifth secret in the walkthrough (at timed run). It fits the readme comment better. The added seventh secret is not supposed to be spectacular and the missing secret in the walkthrough is spectacular in terms of gameplay. The secret has shotgun ammo, explosive crossbow ammo and uzi ammo.

Dutchy:
Your screenshot is correct that the crawlspace is the entrance to the secret you missed. You need to revise the first section of your walkthrough ("The Start Room") since part of it is misleading with respect of where to go to find that crawlspace.

DJ Full:
I don't know what you mean by unfair or probable lower review ratings, but I do know that the most important thing among players in 2001 and in the 1990s was playing Tomb Raider and getting all objects/secrets without using even one medipak (not speed of gameplay). That does not seem to be the case here in Mulf's game.

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Re: Walkthrough Small Talk, thread #2

Post by DJ Full » 20 Mar 2017 14:03

TombTitan wrote:
19 Mar 2017 23:06
I don't know what you mean by unfair or probable lower review ratings, but I do know that the most important thing among players in 2001 and in the 1990s was playing Tomb Raider and getting all objects/secrets without using even one medipak (not speed of gameplay). That does not seem to be the case here in Mulf's game.
That's exactly what I mean - that secret takes at least 85% of health, it's terribly unfair. Possibly we're still talking about two different secrets, I'll see when I play the game to the finish.

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