Overly Complex Levels

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Phil
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Phil » 07 Jan 2020 15:52

vimmers wrote:
07 Jan 2020 12:01
i don't understand why you people read reviews before you play a level
i never do that
Because I have more to do in my life than play every freaking custom level that pops out of the chute. Just as I am discerning in which books I read and which movies I watch, I rely on the opinions of others in deciding which levels I should play. Discriminatory, sure, but that's the way life is.

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Jorge22
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 07 Jan 2020 15:58

There should be a like button in this forum. 8)
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lizard queen
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by lizard queen » 07 Jan 2020 16:12

Jorge22 wrote:
07 Jan 2020 15:49
Yes, yes, yes. They're three different kinds of help and they're complementary. If I have to, I'll use them all just like I'll use none.
_____________________________________
Yes to that too. But not necessarily.
It's more sequential than complimentary, I would say. As Phil says, if you're one to play every level that pops out of the chute, then you get to ask questions in the "Stuck" threads before the walkthrough is done.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Torry » 07 Jan 2020 22:28

Every level I play I try to complete without the walk through and I use the number of times I consult a walk through to compile the game play score I give. If I only consult it two or three times in an hour long level then all good. However if I am forced to constantly consult the walk through I am either stupid or the level is overly complex (there's that term again). Having said that though, the walk through can be a god send so thank you Phil and others.

What do you guys think of the video walk through? When I started this reviewing thing some 19 years ago there were hardly any written walks let alone video walks. At first I thought they were great and wondered at the patience and dedication of the players that compiled these. It must take forever as generally the video walk is straight to the point, no blundering about trying to find your way. That person must have played the level multiple times to get to that point. Now however I tend to stay clear of them if at all possible because it just spoils the whole experience. I once watched a video walk right through and then thought, well why bother playing the level as I now know how it ends. So whilst they help they also spoil the experience in my opinion.

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Jorge22
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 07 Jan 2020 23:22

Yep. That's why I look for specific details both in written and video walkthroughs.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by lizard queen » 08 Jan 2020 13:45

Torry wrote:
07 Jan 2020 22:28
What do you guys think of the video walk through?
Oh boy... that's a tough one. On the one hand, if I had consulted the video walkthrough for Reflections before resorting to the provided savegame, I would have seen the trick and easily been able to proceed with my own game, not somebody elses. On the other hand, I've done exactly the same thing where I consulted the video walkthrough, but kept watching to the point where I didn't feel like playing it after that. Another problem I find is where to start watching the video to find the exact place you're stuck without spoiling the game for you even with the best of intentions "not" to look, if that's even possible. So, I'm still ambivalent regarding the video walkthrough.

However, I will never, ever resort to a provided savegame again. That truly ruined the game for me more than any walkthrough ever did.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by DJ Full » 17 Jan 2020 22:12

Torry wrote:
07 Jan 2020 22:28
Every level I play I try to complete without the walk through and I use the number of times I consult a walk through to compile the game play score I give. If I only consult it two or three times in an hour long level then all good. However if I am forced to constantly consult the walk through I am either stupid or the level is overly complex (there's that term again).
This has one major flaw though.
The more you check the walkthrough, the more likely you are to check it again.
It's an auto-catalyzing phenomenon and often has nothing to do with the level.
So compiling your gameplay score based on this is just not the correct way.
Just compile based on if you enjoyed or if you didn't, that's the best :)
woof

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Jorge22
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 18 Jan 2020 12:06

Like button again.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by vimmers » 18 Jan 2020 12:33

Jorge22 wrote:
18 Jan 2020 12:06
Like button again.
if there should be one
then there also should be a dislike

and no it wasn't cos i dislike DJs post or others
but i only see like buttons on many other forums
and social media
no dislike buttons
and then people starting big discussions probably cos of a missing dislike button

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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Alex Chap » 18 Jan 2020 18:33

If a dislike button sees the day on trle.net, I'm not going to release a level anymore on the website.

Most of social medias doesn't have a dislike feature for a reason, they're supposed to bring positivity, not the contrary. Even Facebook with its angry reaction, sometimes used as a dislike button, is making the publication more invisible to avoid negativity.
Youtube has a like/dislike feature but knowing that they used an honest line like "Watch videos, don't read the comments", it just insists the envy to not publish anything on it, people are using the platform to point hate towards someone. I don't want that to be the same on the TRLE community, a dislike button would just crush someone and I think builders given enough with insulting reviews and forums posts, thank you.
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Jorge22
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 18 Jan 2020 19:04

I actually can't think of so many insults on trle, a globally positive community.

But I do have my doubts regarding the dislike button, which I think could bring some unwarranted dose of bad misunderstandings that nobody needs.

Furthermore, the odd insulting attitude (as the potential dislike button) isn't aimed only at builders.

Anyway, even the like button isn't really needed. I just want to point out I agree with something that has been said and that makes sense to me.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Mehrbod » 18 Jan 2020 19:22

Jorge22 wrote:
18 Jan 2020 19:04
I actually can't think of so many insults on trle, a globally positive community.

But I do have my doubts regarding the dislike button, which I think could bring some unwarranted dose of bad misunderstandings that nobody needs.

Furthermore, the odd insulting attitude (as the potential dislike button) isn't aimed only at builders.

Anyway, even the like button isn't really needed. I just want to point out I agree with something that has been said and that makes sense to me.
Hi Jorge! Thanks for your opinions.

Well, I can definitely say I do agree with Alex Chap and your points of view specifically on this topic. For instance, regarding my own project, I was forced to tolerate so many insults via Email and Tomb Raider Forums, which I eventually decided to abandon my cursed account over TRF, and rely on this website. As you already perfectly pointed this out, TRLE.NET forums is a very positive place and I hope that it never loses its values of friendship and manners, although I can dishearteningly say that recently, I've noticed people sometimes making harsh and bashing criticism, not globally, but rather privately. I mean, why do people have to sometimes behave in such a way to express themselves in a childish manner, which will sequentially result in anger, hatred, and fear for thriving more in this community. As I already said, this situation happened with me and due to the insulting messages I received from some people, I have totally lost motivation to continue and even develop my plugin. Let me put it this way... We are here to enjoy building and playing a 21-year-old game together, like a family, not enemies. We are here to make a classic engine look great, using our creativity. :D

It is worth noting that some individuals might spam the dislike button, as well as the like button, which is really irritating for the author.

Last but not least, I completely agree with your points too and also, well said @Alex Chap.
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Jorge22
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Jorge22 » 18 Jan 2020 19:33

Like button here. :)

Indeed I believe bashers must be feeling bad about themselves. Still, they could be able not to loose their common sense. Never mind though. If somebody insults someone like you over a game it's their problem.
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by Mehrbod » 18 Jan 2020 19:34

Jorge22 wrote:
18 Jan 2020 19:33
Like button here. :)

Indeed I believe bashers must be feeling bad about themselves. Still, they could be able not to loose their common sense. Never mind though. If somebody insults someone like you over a game it's their problem.
Thanks a lot for your warm words. Highly appreciated! :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
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Re: Overly Complex Levels

Post by billie2001 » 20 Jan 2020 14:02

Like button but not pressed anonymously. Registered users only and only once.
Better not a Dislike button since you cannot specify the reason for disliking it and for so many other reasons. :)

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