Sooo... Back to basics 2016

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Ray Croft
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Ray Croft » 26 Jun 2017 19:57

Phil wrote:
26 Jun 2017 19:53
Magnus has obviously been away from Tomb Raider for too long. He knows less now about assigning appropriate review scores to custom levels than he did before.
Well said, not even a 10 in any category in any level.

Also i don't think Sandstorm in Daraya was that bad to only receive a 4 in every category.
Sorry but worst reviewer.
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by OverRaider » 26 Jun 2017 20:49

Not that I am fan of his reviews but on the other side of the coin seeing all those 10`s and 10`s and 10`s and again 10`s and 10 10 101010101010101010101010... is like directing strongest flashlight right into my eyes to blind me! Really hurt my eyes. sorry had to say it! hate me if you want to...and yes I did play some of the levels (those highest rated ones) just so you know...
Where is no challenge there is a boredom

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Mytly » 26 Jun 2017 20:50

Ugh, what the hell is this?! It's nothing but sheer malice. Magnus clearly enjoys the sense of power it gives him to tear down other people's hard work, and has no intention whatsoever to provide a reasonable review/score. :beadyeyes2:
OverRaider wrote:
26 Jun 2017 20:49
Not that I am fan of his reviews but on the other side of the coin seeing all those 10`s and 10`s and 10`s and again 10`s and 10 10 101010101010101010101010... is like directing strongest flashlight right into my eyes to blind me! Really hurt my eyes. sorry had to say it! hate me if you want to...and yes I did play some of the levels (those highest rated ones) just so you know...
There's a vast difference between not giving all 10s and giving all 4s. :roll: I just posted a review for In Search of Immortality yesterday in which I said I didn't understand the high scores it had got, but I still gave it 8.25. Magnus gave it 5. There's a much bigger difference between 5 and 8.25 than between 8.25 and 10.

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by MrJavi94 » 27 Jun 2017 12:28

Magnus' reviews start to be a pain in the *** to keep on reading. It's basically offensive kind-of-commentaries towards the builders who paid lots of effort and passion into building their respective levels.

Sandstorm over Daraya doesn't deserve four 4s (nor a single 4 for me).
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by MichaelP » 27 Jun 2017 12:37

An expected reaction about Magnus reviews, of course, but not sure you did actually bother reading the reviews before you got all excited about the low scores?

I did - twice actually - and then, and only then, chose to approve them, because frankly, he is very, very consistent in his reviewing and while indeed his average is so signifcantly below everyone else, that is the case across the board.
Very visibly what Magnus does is: For him an "ok / average" level is a 5. Not an 8+, as is the case for most everyone else.
If you read his reviews closely, he includes quite a lot of praise for the levels he scores at the top of the BtB ranking - but his "top" is in the 7/8 and not in the 9/10 range.

And in the bigger scheme of things there is nothing wrong with that - scoring wise - at all. Plus of course, you do realize that for the competiton as such it means NONE (!) of Magnus' reviews themselves actually are part of the score calculation directly. The only thing they do is elevate the previously lowest score to now be part of the math...

To the point Marek made above, a decent builder might value an honest 4, 5, 6 or 7 with some feedback described in the comments much more than an emotionally empathic 10 across the board, but it is not easy to separate oneself from the established "norms" of a reviewing system where over the years the average score is 6.5 and not 5.0 as it "statiscally" should be ...

Actually, think about it: If I had just (arbitrarily) added 2 points to all of Magnus' individual scores, would anyone even have bothered reacting?
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Mytly » 27 Jun 2017 14:00

I did read Magnus's reviews. While the scores are (nearly) all insulting, IMO, most of the reviews are as well. In some cases, he does offer constructive criticism, but it's thoroughly buried under completely irrelevant ranting.

For example, he keeps bitching about the city of Susa in the review for The Buried City of Susa. There's some relevant stuff in there, such as complaints about the level crashing (completely valid) and underwater cracks (useful feedback). But how exactly is any of this relevant or helpful?
Ah, Susa. Truly the greatest city of all time. Just amazing. A beautiful city and source of many beautiful things. Oh, and Lara's there and blah blah whatever. The author seems to be really into the city of Susa, and tries very hard to sell you on it. The opening flyby shows this big underwater area and a small bazaar above it, so I was starting to think that maybe there's something to all this Susa praise after all.
It looks nice enough, but it's pretty underwhelming, and it doesn't exactly fill you with awe the way you'd think an amazing city like Susa would. The level took me about forty-five minutes to finish, but I spent another forty-five minutes trying to get around the crashing, and another ten minutes reading about Susa on Wikipedia and UNESCO's website.

Basically, he's complaining that a level built by an amateur with a nearly two-decades-old game engine doesn't look like an actual ancient city. This is not valid criticism, it's just Magnus listening to himself spout hot air (or write it, rather).

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by LoreRaider » 27 Jun 2017 15:36

This:
Sometimes, when I'm thirty minutes into a level I'm not enjoying, searching for a hidden switch and cursing my own existence, I wonder why I even bother with the Back to Basics competitions. (The answer? I have to fulfill my yearly review quota to keep enjoying the secret reviewer perks I'm not allowed to tell you about.)
So... why do you keep playing TRLE games? You have to be quite stupid if you realize that... :dunno:
I think the reviewer compares those games with new generation one's, which is not good...
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Ray Croft » 27 Jun 2017 15:52

^

Well, he did mention Fallout 4 in one of his "reviews" lol. It was BtB 2015 Tragodia. So obviously TRLE Games are not the right thing for him. Too much unnecessary trash talk in his reviews where he doesn't even talk about the level itself but how he dislikes the story or what this or that means etc.
(Basically what Mytly said)

In the end he is just a troll where you shouldn't take anything about him serious tbh. and we should be glad he is only reviewing BtB levels currently.

EDIT: Just realized he's worse than Gorty
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Phil » 27 Jun 2017 15:58

MichaelP wrote:
27 Jun 2017 12:37
Actually, think about it: If I had just (arbitrarily) added 2 points to all of Magnus' individual scores, would anyone even have bothered reacting?
No, because then the scores would have fallen within a reasonable range. Having said that, I get what you say about 5 being average on a scale of 1 to 10, all other things being equal. However, as you (and surely Magnus as well) recognize, the prevailing standard over the years here has been much more liberal than that, hence the offense caused by his reviews. He is no doubt relishing the attention he's getting.

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Talos » 27 Jun 2017 16:11

Mytly wrote:
26 Jun 2017 20:50
Ugh, what the hell is this?! It's nothing but sheer malice. Magnus clearly enjoys the sense of power it gives him to tear down other people's hard work, and has no intention whatsoever to provide a reasonable review/score. :beadyeyes2:


I had the "nice" honor of seeing me destroy my own BtB level for her "beautiful" words. I was hoping not to review, I'm telling the truth.
Why do people have to destroy the work of others with so much mischief? I have not been able to play all the levels, but no one is ugly: indeed! Everyone is beautiful, and everyone is committed to building them

(sorry for my english, guys)

EDIT
Ray Croft wrote:
27 Jun 2017 15:52
^

Well, he did mention Fallout 4 in one of his "reviews" lol. It was BtB 2015 Tragodia. So obviously TRLE Games are not the right thing for him. Too much unnecessary trash talk in his reviews where he doesn't even talk about the level itself but how he dislikes the story or what this or that means etc.
(Basically what Mytly said)

In the end he is just a troll where you shouldn't take anything about him serious tbh. and we should be glad he is only reviewing BtB levels currently.

EDIT: Just realized he's worse than Gorty
That's right. Comparing a custom level made with an obsolete engine with Fallou 4 ?! But what does it mean? What does it mean?! This is a trolling and an offense to me and my job (who knows this Magnus? What do you want from BtB levels? Do I have to level up and be insulted by one that compares me to Fallout?) :beadyeyes: :beadyeyes:

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by MichaelP » 27 Jun 2017 16:24

Funny, how we are all "psycho-analyzing" Magnus here, isn't it? As if we would really know what is going on in his mind... :D

I agree completely with Phil's point that he is probably (!) "relishing the attention", but who knows - he may as well be completely ignorant of (or care not at all about) any of the discussions his BtB review wave is usully causing...

I actually disagree that he would be comparing trle levels with current games, as he is clearly much smarter than that. He does look for things that he would find entertaining enough to keep his interest in playing and he generally has a different scoring scale. Again, if the score were two points higher, would you find the comments all that offensive after all? Try to look behind the bias that the scores create! Personally, I could fully accept any of the comments in these 14 reviews for any of my own levels and not take any personal offense. Feedback is a gift. You can always choose to take it or ignore it.

As a very personal add: In all honesty, after almost 20 years, these special and entertaining moments in a level can suddenly be few and far between. As some may have noticed, I have not played a level myself in more than 6 months now (and still could not get myself to even touch a BtB 2016 level yet), because by end of last year I found it increasingly tiring and boring to play the same old, same old mechanisms all over and over again - and if I had written my reviews, they may not have looked entirely different to some of Magnus' comments. But that is just me, of course. Others out there still get very excited about the next clever block puzzle to solve and they comment and score that accordingly and that's just great...

Then again - all of the above is just my speculation and assumptions about Magnus - after all you may be right and he is just intentionally trolling around... I just happen to not think so, which is why I let the reviews in
- and as always: Each and every builder is happily invited to privately (!) discuss any concerns about a review for her/his level with Magnus and resolve any potential issues later on....
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Talos » 27 Jun 2017 16:32

MichaelP wrote:
27 Jun 2017 16:24


As a very personal add: In all honesty, after almost 20 years, these special and entertaining moments in a level can suddenly be few and far between. As some may have noticed, I have not played a level myself in more than 6 months now (and still could not get myself to even touch a BtB 2016 level yet), because by end of last year I found it increasingly tiring and boring to play the same old, same old mechanisms all over and over again - and if I had written my reviews, they may not have looked entirely different to some of Magnus' comments. But that is just me, of course. Others out there still get very excited about the next clever block puzzle to solve and they comment and score that accordingly and that's just great...
I also agree with this, but I would never allow myself to write comparisons on new generation games in an offensive manner. Also because the BtB has rules for building levels, so you can not do or create "new" things.

However it is useless to talk about it, in the end is not the score or the review of a single person to destroy a level and the work of the LD.

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Mytly » 27 Jun 2017 16:41

Ray Croft wrote:
27 Jun 2017 15:52
In the end he is just a troll where you shouldn't take anything about him serious tbh. and we should be glad he is only reviewing BtB levels currently.
Indeed. I'm very happy now that I didn't manage to complete building my level in time. At least now when I do finish and release it (it should be done any year now :wink: ), there's very little chance Magnus will review it. :roll:

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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by manarch2 » 27 Jun 2017 17:08

I have to step in here. While I really don't share Magnus's ratings (which are perhaps even lower than his "usual standard") I think it's really unfair to "demonize" his reviews. Like Michael I think most of his text notes are decent and constructive enough. Yes sometimes he's, to say the least, not very kind with the builders, but if one can see his comments as ironical (which I believe the majority of them are, as they always have been) you can actually more out of them despite their rough impression.
And as for the ratings, don't forget it's always just 1 of ~15 reviews...
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Re: Sooo... Back to basics 2016

Post by Mytly » 27 Jun 2017 17:23

MichaelP wrote:
27 Jun 2017 16:24
As a very personal add: In all honesty, after almost 20 years, these special and entertaining moments in a level can suddenly be few and far between. As some may have noticed, I have not played a level myself in more than 6 months now (and still could not get myself to even touch a BtB 2016 level yet), because by end of last year I found it increasingly tiring and boring to play the same old, same old mechanisms all over and over again - and if I had written my reviews, they may not have looked entirely different to some of Magnus' comments.
But that's just it - you didn't write those reviews. If Magnus is tired of TRLE as well - and he certainly seems to be - it's not like he's contractually obligated to review anything (despite what he says in one of his reviews). It's perfectly ok for someone not to feel like playing TRLE levels - or not feel like reviewing them despite playing them (which is what I've been mainly doing for the past year or two). But why exactly is anyone forced to play and review them despite clearly not enjoying either activity?

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